California or Federal Emissions?

[RXTbone]

I'm looking to purchase a cylinder head for rebuild or one that can be used directly. I'm being asked whether it's CA or Fed emission. Is it referencing a catalytic converter (which mine doesn't have)? I have a 1980 124 Spider 2000 - carbed. Thank you for any help you might provide!

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Most 1980 California cars were fuel injected, so if yours is carbed, then it's likely to be a 49-state version. However, that's not totally definitive, but the casting number on the cylinder head might help solve this.

Look on the cylinder head between the #2 and #3 spark plug wells. You'll see a number like 4372291, but let us know what number you actually have.

-Bryan

[RXTbone]

Head #4198994. Thank you for the help!

[18Fiatsandcounting]

That's weird. 4198994 is the cylinder head for a 1969 Fiat spider, and it's what I have in my '69 spider.

Do you know for sure that yours is a 2L engine? Was something changed in the past?

If you can get the number off the block, that might help answer this. The block ID number is stamped into a flat flange on the block, either directly above the flange for the oil filter, or to the right of it (depending on which engine it is). Examples would be 124AC.040 or 132C2.031

-Bryan

[RXTbone]

Block is 124RC - if I'm looking in the right location...

[RXTbone]

A little further digging... I think the block is #4180202... thank you for your help!

[18Fiatsandcounting]

4180202 is the same casting number on the side of the block that I have in my car, and it's a 1438cc engine. So, it looks like you have the Fiat engine that was used in the spiders from 1968 up until mid-1970 or so when the 1608cc engine came out.

I'm guessing the 124RC you saw is actually 124AC. Those numbers (letters) are hard to read. It should be followed by a .040. Underneath that is a serial number that is 7 digits long and starts with a zero.

Any idea how your Spider 2000 got a much earlier engine in it...? What is the redline on the tachometer? It was 5800 rpm for the 2L and 6800 rpm for the 1438 engine.

-Bryan

[RXTbone]

Redline is 5800 - the VIN and title is 1980. This car is 100% project - but I think it's obvious the car has an older engine. The car has the 1980 5 speed. So, I guess I can assume the older engines bolts up to the tranny and clutch? Do newer (1980) heads bolt to the older blocks?

I appreciate the insight. First FIAT.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

The 1438 engines used a smaller diameter flywheel and clutch assembly, and because of that, a smaller bellhousing so that the starter motor gear is in the right location to engage the flywheel ring gear. The difference is very subtle, but the engines after that (1.6L, 1.8L, 2L) used a larger bellhousing. All of the bellhousings mate up to the 5-speed transmission, and I believe this transmission was the same for all the model years. So just the flywheel and clutch and bellhousings differ between the 1438 and the later years.

So, if you do indeed have a 1438 engine (as it appears is the case) and it is connected to the transmission, then you would need the larger 2L bellhousing. The bellhousings can be changed without removing the transmission (I have done this), but the engine has to be removed.

I can provide more details if you'd like. I don't believe the 1800 head would bolt up to the 1438 block as the centers for the bores are different (80mm diameter vs. 84 diameter).

-Bryan

[RXTbone]

Again - thank you for the information! So it looks like I can find a head cylinder - or rebuild another engine. Is there a particular engine year/size that you guys look for - that's considered the best of the lot? Probably subjective - but there's usually jewels in the community.

Thank you again for the info!

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Is there a particular engine year/size that you guys look for - that's considered the best of the lot?

As I recall, you have a 1980 carbed spider which should have a 2L engine in it but instead has a 1438 engine and therefore the smaller flywheel/clutch/bellhousing? If so, that's a tough combo as the smaller 1438 is challenged to move the heavier weight of the 1980 car. You can improve the 1438 a bit, but it's never going to have the power of the larger engines. An old saying: There's no substitute for cubic inches.

I guess it all depends on what your goal is. If it's horsepower you are after, the ideal (as I have heard) is a 2L block with a Lancia Beta 2L FI head from 1980. That particular head is hard to find, so the next best option is a 2L block with an 1800 head. Properly built up with cams and carburetion, you can get around 140 HP. You can also spend tons of money and get 180+ HP but this gets dangerous as the drivetrain wasn't designed for this and so would be looking at different driveshafts, differentials & rear axles, strengthening the engine mounting, etc.

If it's the free revving fun of the early engines, a well built 1608 is pretty good. Again, carbs and cams will make it more spirited.

And, if you simply want driveability and fuel economy, a fuel injected 2L stock engine is not bad.

All these options differ greatly in terms of cost which can be up to $10,000 and more.

-Bryan

[RXTbone]

Again, thank you for the information - much appreciated! Like most things - sounds like it all comes down to money