Rattling Shifter -socket replacement - revisited again

[maxdog]

Hi
I now have the center console out , the chrome shifter extension and gear knob off and want to tackle the floppy shifter in my 1979 2000.
I've looked at some old threads , the Fiat workshop manual and various vendors parts catalogues and am now confused .
What is installed on my car bears little resemblance to any of these reference documents so I intend to start afresh and would appreciate help to ensure I only do this job once
What is the " ANTI RATTLE CLIP , OR SPRING " I don,t have one .
Where and how is it fitted?
If I fit one will it stop the gear lever rattling , or must I do more ?
Can I install a LOWER SOCKET KIT , by removing the bottom cover bolts without removing the gear lever , or must I remove the lever from the car ?
Is a more comprehensive "socket repair kit "available , and is this needed to fix a rattling gear lever ?
The interior of my car looks as if it was attacked with a grenade , I only want to do this job once !
Thanks
Maxdog

[maxdog]

Hi
I now have gear shift apart and can answer some of my queries . However I still need some help !!!
All part numbers in this response are from page 21:11 the Fiat shop manual
The anti rattle spring [ 21 ] was missing . It fits into the slot on the driver's side of the selector shaft [7 ]
Stripping out the shift mechanism is done from underneath the car .
The bolts holding the cover plate [ 14 ] and socket [ 24 ] can be removed with a socket , flex joint and a long extension
This gives access to the nut and washer [ 11 ] which holds the remaining items in place
Remove this nut with care, the spring [22 ] will force the remaining parts free .
You can now remove the gear lever and replace worn parts
I am struggling with the the problem of reassembly
It would be easy if I could assemble every thing on the bench , slip the gear lever assembly into place and install the cover.
Unfortunately the drive shaft fouls the socket [ 24 ]
If I assemble the spring [ 22 ] and cover [ 23 ] with a nut before offering up the socket [ 24 ] and bearing [ 10] from below it seems unlikely that the cover will slide up the gear shift freely, allowing the spring to compress. ??
Can the gear shift be refitted with the drive shaft in place , or do I need to remove the drive shaft ?
My do nut bolts seem to be un moveable , can I leave the complete do nut assembly in place and simply pull the complete drive shaft out backwards .?
Any comments would be helpful !
Cheers
Maxdog

[aj81spider]

I did it a long time ago, so I'm not sure of all the details. However I put the shift lever back in without removing the drive shaft. I inserted the shift lever from the bottom - it was quite fiddly to get it around the drive shaft. I don't remember if I assembled all the pieces before that or whether I put the lever up the hole then assembled them from below. If forced to choose I think I assembled it all and fiddled the drive shaft around the pieces.

It helps if the car is on jack stands with the rear wheels free so you can rotate the drive shaft while you're doing it.

Sorry I don't remember more details. I do remember it was a real PITA and I spent a couple of hours on my back fiddling with stuff. However I did get it done without removing the drive shaft.

[courtenay]

If I recall correctly, it's the guibo that's in the way rather than the driveshaf itselft. One of my winter projects is to take care of my shift rattle, and I'm also taking the opportunity to replace the guibo as well to ensure I have room to deal with the shifter from below. If you haven't replaced your guibo for awhile, might be a good time to do it.

[maxdog]

Yes .!!!
I can confirm that it is possible to reassemble the gear lever without dropping the propeller shaft.This how I did it , with a little help from my son .The numbers in brackets are from page 21;11 of the Fiat shop manual

Assemble spring [ 22 ] and cover [23 ] onto the gear lever[25 ] ; use a stack of washers and a plain nut tightened only 1 turn to hold this assembly together . You will have to remove the nut later on , it's inaccessible and a royal pain so make life easy for your assistant

, Feed the gear lever assembly into place from below the car and secure it in place with vice grips. It will fit , eventually

Bolt the socket[ 24 ] into place under the car .You will need to remove these bolts eventually to fit the cover , so don't over tighten them .
At this stage you have : the gear lever , spring and cover in place , sitting on top of the socket which is bolted to to the under side of the shift tower.Check that the gear lever will move up and down freely against spring pressure

From this point you will need a patient assistant

If all is well press down on the gear lever while your assistant moves deftly to :
Remove the plain nut and washer stack
Replace them with the bearing [ 10] washer and Nylock nut [ 11] which should be tightened down hard

Remove one of the bolts holding the socket [ 24 ] , fit the cover plate [ 12 ]and refit the bolt . Remove the other bolts and rotate the cover plate into position . Tighten all three bolts

Fit the anti rattle spring [ 21 ]into the vertical slot on the left hand side of the gear selector shaft [ 7 ].

Finally open a frosty beverage or two in celebration !

Cheers
Maxdog

[maxdog]

Hi
The snow has finally melted ,and the spyder has been licensed. I finally fixed the buzzy ,vibrating shift mechanism ; A complete strip down and rebuild with all new parts and a change to ashort shifter . The gear change now has short, precise throws, all , the annoying rattles are gone .I think the anti rattle clip was the key modification , it was not there when I stripped the gear change and is not included in some rebuild kits
To summarise :
This job is real PITA , but it's doable and worth while
It can be done with every thing left in situ , there is no need to disconnect the prop shaft , drop the gear box , etc .
Get the car as far off the ground as possible and support it safely !!
Do this job in the winter when there is no pressure to finish it quickly
Cheers
Maxdog

[maxdog]

I thought that all my winter work had sorted the annoying gear stick rattle . After 600 km it started again , first at high revs in low gear and then getting gradually worse until it was audible at all speeds in all gears . However it disappeared with the slightest pressure on the FIAT wooden knob on the gear lever .
I found that there was a very slight amount of " wiggle "between the knob and the lever when the knob was screwed hard down , I unscrewed the knob half a turn to eliminate the wiggle and the annoying noise disappeared !
Problem solved ? Watch this sppace for further exciting developments in this long running saga
Cheers
Maxdog

[dimitridodys]

I had this problem and it was the knob itself.

[F16Waldo]

I just replaced the shifter on my 83 Pininfarina after the lower nut unscrewed itself and the shifter pulled completely out of the shift shaft. This reply is for this newer thread, but the info is also applicable to the old thread I found very helpful in fixing the problem. ("shifter repair, me too" http://www.fiatspider.com/f15/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5859).

Anti rattle clip: When I disassembled my shifter, the anti-rattle was installed from the top with the bowed part on the inner side of the shifter shaft. I purchased a new clip from Auto Ricambi (sku TR5-464) along with the lower socket kit (TR5-540). When I took apart my shifter, the original anti-rattle clip was still good but not properly seated. The original clip is slightly different than the AR clip so I reinstalled the original. Works OK, but I do get a little rattle in 3d gear. If I had to do it over, I would install the new, slightly different clip from AR.

Shifter Install: Figured out a very easy way to put the shifter back into the shifter shaft (necessitated as I do not have an assistant to hold the shifter down while I try to assemble in the whole thing in the car). First I fully assembled the entire shifter (spring, socket, ball, etc) and put a nylon locking nut (8mm) on the end. (don't forget to pre-lube the assembly). It is important to ID how the lower plate (and hence the black ball socket) align in the transmission housing. They only go in one way and it is easy to start bolting the assembly back together in the wrong alignment (I marked the hole that needed to be towards the rear with orange crayon). Once assembled and oriented, start with the transmission in neutral and then feed the assembled shifter up from the underside of the car. I started on the passenger side and pushed the shifter up through the shifter shaft until the lower socket assembly was wedged tight against the drive shaft. The lower part was then wedged on the passenger side of the drive shaft and the upper part was pointing at the steering column. Here is the important clue...wedge the shifter so that the reverse lock out stud is on the downside of the shifter and the shifter shaft nub is on the upper side and pushing against the underside of the shifter shaft (if inserting from the passenger side as described, this will be 180 out from final install orientation). Once wedged into place, go topside and push the shifter shaft (I used a large screwdriver) as if trying to shift into 1st/2d gear. This will release the pressure on the shifter and you can now easily pull it up into place and secure it in position with vice grips. Whole thing took about 2 minutes. After that, crawl back underneath and bolt into place (note the Auto Ricambi kit includes new bolts...but no washers. I just used the old bolts). Total time was about 45 minutes (does not include center console R&R).

Hope this helps. My first post here and have not broken the code on how to upload pics. Good luck!

Cheers
Waldo

[tima01864]

Very helpfull, Thank You all!

[EuroC]

This post was super helpful... worked like a charm, but wanted to add one tweak that also made my life easier:
Once the shift knob is inserted from beneath the car and you need to put the lockwasher and bolt on from underneath, before attempting to thread the nut, i put a couple of heavy duty magnets (i had some of my kids' ones lying around the house) on the shift rod, in the interior of the car. This way, the washer and nut will stay attached to the threads while you only have to worry about catching the threads, and not have to fight gravity constantly pulling the washer and nut off

[TX82FIAT]

The person in the car pushing on the shifter must have a certain amount of strength to push down on the spring and give you enough thread to get the locknut on. At first I had my adult daughter push down on the shaft fiddling around for 40 minutes
with various stages of cursing and dropping nuts. I then had my son push down on the shifter and was able to thread the nut in less than a minute.