Installing Ball Joints

[ScottB]

I just noticed you have had your 79 since new. I have had my 1980 Since new. Don't imagine there are many us out there. For me i drove it mostly in my 20s and then stuck it in a garage in my 30s until now. Just pulled it out of storage finally. It is quite a strange feeling actually as a throw back memory like a time warp. lol.

I agree with you about the time warp! In my case, my '69 was purchased new by my parents, and so I literally grew up in the back seat of that car. That explains the poor condition of the vinyl, I guess. Anyway, the car became mine when I went off to college, and here we are decades later. The car has been across the U.S. a few times and has survived floods, fires (literally), and many girlfriends. I kinda think I've aged more than it has....

Meanwhile, on your steering knuckle bolt issue, I would call Midwest-Bayless and see if they have some of the long bolts. They have lots of used parts, and I would think they're likely to have these, even if not listed on their website. Or put a "wanted" post in that section of this forum. I'm sure someone has them.

-Bryan

Cool story on the 69. how great to still have that part of your history and memories.

I will try midwest. They have the short ones on their website, but not the long ones. I will give them a call. I also am surfing this site more and see all the for sale and wanted stuff so will give that a try too.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I will try midwest. They have the short ones on their website, but not the long ones.

There's a good chance they have them or know where to get them. I've bought several things from M-B that weren't listed on their website.

-Bryan

[ScottB]

I will try midwest. They have the short ones on their website, but not the long ones.

There's a good chance they have them or know where to get them. I've bought several things from M-B that weren't listed on their website.

-Bryan

No luck at M-B but they were sure happy to help.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Weird... I did some searching online with all the Fiat parts vendors that I know about, and I came up blank. Plenty of people selling spindles and steering arms and the like, but the bolts are surprisingly absent.

A wanted ad would seem the best approach at this point.

-Bryan

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Since the unavailability of this seemingly common bolt was bugging me, I looked again at FiatPlus. It shows as out of stock, but he has a nearby warehouse and very likely has the long bolts:
http://www.fiatplus.com/LONG-BRAKE-DUST-PLATE-BOLT.html

-Bryan

[dinghyguy]

Scott,

Bernie at Bent Wrenches in Mission will have the bolt you need. Maybe used but that should still be ok.

dinghyguy

[ScottB]

Scott,

Bernie at Bent Wrenches in Mission will have the bolt you need. Maybe used but that should still be ok.

dinghyguy

Thanks dinghyguy.

I will check it out.

I got my spindles back today .. They had to cut the nut for the ball joint off and got the steering arms separated so very happy about that. The bolts were destroyed for the steering arms but i will check with Bent wrench.
Thanks again for the recommendation.
Scott

[ScottB]

Kal Tire kept the right and left spindle/ steering arms together so that's good. I have looked on line and in the manual but cant find confirmation of right and left side, and top and bottom of the spindle.

Right side spindle is the left hand thread i seam to remember form removal. It also has the notch in it. However is the notch down and go on the lower ball joint, or the upper. It looks like there is more space for ball joint nuts with steering arm attached if it goes to the lower. If that makes sense.
Thx
Scott

[18Fiatsandcounting]

If that makes sense.

No, but I think I know what you're asking...

The passenger side spindle has a left-hand thread, and the driver side spindle has a right-hand (normal) thread. In addition, the spindles are mounted so that the shaft part that the hub rides on is closer to the tapered hole for the bottom ball joint than it is to the top hole.

Hope this helps.
-Bryan

[ScottB]

If that makes sense.

No, but I think I know what you're asking...

The passenger side spindle has a left-hand thread, and the driver side spindle has a right-hand (normal) thread. In addition, the spindles are mounted so that the shaft part that the hub rides on is closer to the tapered hole for the bottom ball joint than it is to the top hole.

Hope this helps.
-Bryan

Ha, good thing i put "If that makes sense" in there. But yes you did answer my question. The shorter tapered side has a long and deep cut into the back side of the tapered hole which i think Fiat did to designate the left hand thread spindle for the passenger side. Actually i never looked at the other side so i may be wrong there. lol Anyways, thanks and that answered what i was needing.

So as i go to put the ball joints in, i have been very slow as i don't want to have to remove them again, it looks like i need to use an impact gun or something. When i try and screw them in with just a wrench the ball/ shaft of the ball joint begin to turn when the nylon lock in the nut hits the threads. Not sure how to back up the ball to get them to seat and giving the friction needed to torque. Hope that one make sense. lol Suggestion on how to screw the nut on without the ball turning.

Thanks again for the information.
Scott

[ScottB]

Hey scott
Been there done that...
For a delaneys coffee I will tell all and loan you my ball joint tool

Cheers dinghyguy

BTW Dinghyguy what's delaneys. I thought it was all Tims here. I guess i will have to check it out.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Hope that one make sense. lol Suggestion on how to screw the nut on without the ball turning.

Yes, that made perfect sense, and yes, this is a common problem. 2 solutions:

1. Use a regular nut (not a nylon lock nut) to get the tapered shaft of the ball joint up into the hole of the spindle enough to start grabbing. Once the tapered tip is reasonably firmly seated, remove the regular nut and install your nylon lock nut. Torque to the recommended spec.

2. Put some force on the upper and lower control arms, either with a large C-clamp or the like, to force the ball joints into their holes. You can also put a jack under the lower control arm, lift it slightly, gently pound on the spindle to set the bottom ball joint, tighten, then gently pound down on the upper ball joint until it starts to seat enough to get the nylon lock nut going.

Sometimes a combination of #1 and #2 works best: gentle tapping with a hammer and slowly tightening the nut just a little bit at a time until the tapered shaft grabs and you can torque those bad boys to spec.

-Bryan

[ScottB]

Hope that one make sense. lol Suggestion on how to screw the nut on without the ball turning.

Yes, that made perfect sense, and yes, this is a common problem. 2 solutions:

1. Use a regular nut (not a nylon lock nut) to get the tapered shaft of the ball joint up into the hole of the spindle enough to start grabbing. Once the tapered tip is reasonably firmly seated, remove the regular nut and install your nylon lock nut. Torque to the recommended spec.

2. Put some force on the upper and lower control arms, either with a large C-clamp or the like, to force the ball joints into their holes. You can also put a jack under the lower control arm, lift it slightly, gently pound on the spindle to set the bottom ball joint, tighten, then gently pound down on the upper ball joint until it starts to seat enough to get the nylon lock nut going.

Sometimes a combination of #1 and #2 works best: gentle tapping with a hammer and slowly tightening the nut just a little bit at a time until the tapered shaft grabs and you can torque those bad boys to spec.

-Bryan

I sure appreciate the solutions. Back to the store for a regular nut and a large c clamp, although i have some good ratchet straps i may try first. I do have a good floor jack as well.

Here is some more for you. It look like the one brake line, front passengers side, is leaking where the brake hose connects to the metal brake line nut. It also look like whom ever worked on my brakes last used a set of vise grips, or something like that, to tighten the nut so it is rounded and big teeth marks in it. I figure i try and tighten it and see how it goes. Alternative it looks like i have enough spare line there to re-flange it with a new nut. researching flanging, do you have any idea of what type of flange i would use? Double, bubble, (sounds like gum lol) or regular, or does it matter. I don't want to take the line out of the car, even if i could, as it runs behind the motor.

This is like a house reno. Open up a wall and all sorts of rats nests are in there.
Thanks again. Hope i can return the favor.
Scott

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Yes, a ratchet strap would probably also work. All you really need to do is pull the ball joint tapers sufficiently into the spindle holes so that they start to grab. Once you get the nut pulling them even tighter, it's pretty straightforward from that point.

On the brake line: This is the connection up against the inner wheel well, next to the shock tower? Where the flexible rubber brake hose from the caliper meets up with the solid metal line, ideally in a metal tang with a D-shaped hole and a U-shaped metal clip to hold the metal part of the rubber hose into the D-shaped hole?

I wish people wouldn't use vise grips (should be called vice grips) on these things, but they do. But, lots of things I wish I could change in this world. OK, enough of my rant. Since the flare nut on the metal brake line is already goofed up, you can try to tighten some more. Ideally what you want is a flare wrench, which has more sides to grab the nut than a regular open-end wrench. If the nut isn't too buggered up, you might be able to get a flare wrench on it and tighten.

If you need to build a new flared tip on the metal line, this is not something that I know much about so I can't help you there. I have never had to do it, although many people are experts at this. Maybe some on this forum.

By the way, my method of removing stubborn brake line fittings is a small brass wire brush to clean the joint, a flare wrench, penetrating oil that is left to sit for at least a few hours, and some very mild & careful heating with a propane torch if necessary. Nothing hotter than that. Let cool, then try to loosen. Repeat if necessary.

-Bryan

[ScottB]

Yes, a ratchet strap would probably also work. All you really need to do is pull the ball joint tapers sufficiently into the spindle holes so that they start to grab. Once you get the nut pulling them even tighter, it's pretty straightforward from that point.

On the brake line: This is the connection up against the inner wheel well, next to the shock tower? Where the flexible rubber brake hose from the caliper meets up with the solid metal line, ideally in a metal tang with a D-shaped hole and a U-shaped metal clip to hold the metal part of the rubber hose into the D-shaped hole?

I wish people wouldn't use vise grips (should be called vice grips) on these things, but they do. But, lots of things I wish I could change in this world. OK, enough of my rant. Since the flare nut on the metal brake line is already goofed up, you can try to tighten some more. Ideally what you want is a flare wrench, which has more sides to grab the nut than a regular open-end wrench. If the nut isn't too buggered up, you might be able to get a flare wrench on it and tighten.

If you need to build a new flared tip on the metal line, this is not something that I know much about so I can't help you there. I have never had to do it, although many people are experts at this. Maybe some on this forum.

By the way, my method of removing stubborn brake line fittings is a small brass wire brush to clean the joint, a flare wrench, penetrating oil that is left to sit for at least a few hours, and some very mild & careful heating with a propane torch if necessary. Nothing hotter than that. Let cool, then try to loosen. Repeat if necessary.

-Bryan

Yes that's the connection. You know it well. Did i call them Vice grips? Anyways, inside the wheel well with the clip to the rubber brake line. I bought a set of flare wrench in preparation of checking some brake lines. Unfortunately the nut was already damn near round. I just tried to tighten it up some more, so bleed and after that just give the brakes a good foot pressure test and see if it leaks. Hope not.

I got the ball joints in like you suggested. Once they grabbed traction in the hole they torqued right in. Bottom one easy with the floor jack. Upper pretty easy too. Once side is done. yay. Tomorrow the other side. Should go pretty smooth now i got some experience.

Thanks again for all the insights. Helped a lot.
Scott