PILLOW BLOCK MOUNTING GROMMETS

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RRoller123
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Your car is a: 1980 FI SPIDER 2000
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PILLOW BLOCK MOUNTING GROMMETS

Post by RRoller123 »

Putting everything back together, and my car is missing the (2) Rubber Grommets, indicated as item # 24 in the drawing.

EDIT: Missing the bushings too.

They make a big difference, not just for shock isolation, but for driveline angle adjustment. The drawing clearly indicates a driveline angle between the two driveshaft sections, but not the Guibo. The chassis studs that hold both the transmission mounting yoke support bar and the pillow block support bar are oddly long, and it is now clear why. I did a driveline angle study (that I am not yet ready to write up) but I found that there is a full 0.5 deg adjustability built into both the transmission and pillow block mounts, allowing the front (short) drive shaft section drive angle to be matched to the transmission through the Guibo, and for the transmission drive angle to be matched to the Differential. [You want the Transmission output angle to be as close as possible to the Differential mounting plate angle. I can get it within 0.30 Deg, with the transmission yoke in the full UP mounting position. It is 0.80 Deg with it in the full DOWN mounting position].

Does anyone have one of these rubber mounts, and can you describe them, how thick they are, etc. I assume made of very high durometer rubber. It would be the rubber part shown in kit #DR5-460 on AR's website.

Thanks!

Pete

Image
Last edited by RRoller123 on Tue May 19, 2020 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'80 FI Spider 2000
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
ORFORD2004
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Your car is a: 1983 PININFARINA
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Re: PILLOW BLOCK MOUNTING GROMMETS

Post by ORFORD2004 »

Regular rubber but it lock in place when you put the bushing in.
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Re: PILLOW BLOCK MOUNTING GROMMETS

Post by RRoller123 »

Bushings are missing too. Is it possible anyone has the size? Obviously they fit over the stud, but the length is an issue, and it does effect the driveline angle. So I would custom cut them anyway, but curious what the factory setting is.
'80 FI Spider 2000
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
SteinOnkel
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Your car is a: 1978 124 Spider 1800

Re: PILLOW BLOCK MOUNTING GROMMETS

Post by SteinOnkel »

I have all the stuff dismantled at the moment.

But it's all 42 years old. No way is it to the original spec, so not sure how helpful measurements would be. I'm just going to put it back together and let sleeping dogs lie. It's not a formula one car, so I doubt that it is of much import. Anything below 3 degrees is fine for a prop shaft angle.
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Re: PILLOW BLOCK MOUNTING GROMMETS

Post by RRoller123 »

It isn't the 3 degrees, it is the delta between the sending and receiving planes. The U-Joints can easily take a 3 degree prop angle, and these cars have far less than that by design. I will report later when I take the time to draw a sketch, but I am seeing just a degree or two of primary shaft angle on my car. At a 3 degree delta, one would certainly feel driveline vibration, due to the elliptical paths of the U-Joint yokes, and this probably explains a lot, especially in light of sagging engine mounts, etc. This illustrates it very clearly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmV4qwLfOMY . As does this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCMZz6YhbOQ .

For example, Tim's engine mounts (and mine to a lesser degree) were shifted by a full inch top to bottom stud (!). This effects Block/Transmission Pitch and Yaw at a minimum. We have been working on removing the vibration from his car for about a year, made a lot of progress in many places (wheels, tires, balance, alignment, rear axle changeout, the usual stuff). Hopefully this study continues the progress.

So far, on my car, I have been able to get the Engine Roll down to 0.20 Degrees (as measured by the Block top face to the Crossmember), and the Delta between the Trans Output and Diff Input at 0.30 degrees. The hot rod crowd (as far as I have researched) shoots for a 1.5 degrees max delta, BUT interestingly, they purposely set the Diff a little low, figuring that the car will squat somewhat during a hard acceleration, the rear axle will lift up, and bring the delta up to almost zero degrees during full power on. Can't do that without spring shims on these cars, of course, as the trailing arms are not adjustable. [The driveline shaft angle itself is never set at zero, i.e. the entire system colinear, which might make intuitive sense, straight through power, because then the U-Joints will see brinell hardening on their yoke bearing rods. The yokes need to make that elliptical movement].

The Guibo should be as exactly inline as possible to the trans output, and that is easy to achieve, because there are support bars for both the trans support yoke and the pillow block bearing right there, which are easily shimmed! If these are out of colinearity, there will certainly be vibration and wear issues, and it turns the driveline into a (2) shaft versus a (1) shaft system. The rubber Guibo then constantly trying to sort out the delta with every rotation. [With the short section hard fixed to the chassis/unibody and colinear with the transmission output, this is a really simple (1) shaft system, with the only degree of freedom really being the up and down movement of the rear axle. And that isn't much on average, with long training arms.

I find this stuff fascinating, and now on to something else!
'80 FI Spider 2000
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
ORFORD2004
Posts: 1120
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:48 pm
Your car is a: 1983 PININFARINA
Location: Sherbrooke, Qc, Canada

Re: PILLOW BLOCK MOUNTING GROMMETS

Post by ORFORD2004 »

Brand new in the shell
Rubber .870 wide .680 groove .350 thick
steel bushing .548 wide .247 thick and hole for 8mm bolt.
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RRoller123
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Re: PILLOW BLOCK MOUNTING GROMMETS

Post by RRoller123 »

Excellent, thank you!

Pete
'80 FI Spider 2000
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
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