Clutch Parts

[SteinOnkel]

Ahoy,

it's time for my car to receive a clutch. I've had enough of the loud pilot bearing. Enough, I tells ya!

A couple of questions.

- What other "while you're in there parts should I replace? I was thinking pressure plate, pilot bearing, clutch disc and get the flywheel resurfaced + new rear crankshaft seal and housing gasket.

- Are the flywheel bolts torque to yield and therefore need to be replaced?

- What's a good way to lock the crankshaft in place to tighten up the flywheel bolts?

- Driveshaft out, transmission out, pull the clutch? Is that the order or any surprises I should know about?

Thanks
Steiny

[GeorgeT]

Replace the guibo if it's never been replaced. Google search "flywheel locking tool".

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Steiny, my initial thought is that if you can hear the pilot bearing, you're not revving the engine high enough!

OK, time to get serious. I think you have it pretty much all correct. On resurfacing the flywheel, make sure you take it to a shop that knows what they are doing. I have heard some flywheels are very slightly concave, and if they are inadvertently resurfaced completely flat, your clutch action won't be as smooth. Not sure about this on your Fiat, though, but a shop could check your flywheel before they do any machining.

Torque-to-Yield (TTY). Again, it may depend on model year, but I don't recall any of my Fiats having these, rather, just plain old bolts. TTY bolts will have a narrower shank, so if the ones in your car are like that, replace with TTY. If they are regular bolts, you can reuse.

As noted above, there is a tool to lock the flywheel so you can loosen the flywheel bolts. My "cheapskate method" was always to insert one of the lower transmission to engine mounting bolts, and use that as a fulcrum to hold a large screwdriver engaged with the flywheel teeth. Not ideal, but it always worked.

Oh, one more thing: I'd probably get a new rubber seal for where the clutch fork goes through the bellhousing.

-Bryan

[RRoller123]

Watch that rubber boot, it can be installed two ways. It appears that the "Wedge" portion should sit outside the case, but this is not the case (no pun intended). The wedge portion (it is obvious when you look at it) sits inside the case. It intuitively makes more sense for it to be outside, but it then will interfere with the clutch spring and cause the pedal to feel odd, and probably wear the carp out of it quickly.

The rubber design has a thin "U" shaped slot cut into the boot, so that it fits around and inside, seals, the "U" shape of the arm of the clutch bar that passes through it, and this design reversed itself somewhere in the past! So when you get a new one, it may look the same, but check it carefully. We put ours side by side, new and old, and they are NOT the same. Only the "U" shaped cutout slot has changed. Either way, the boot can be installed two ways, at 180 degrees out from each other. Regardless, the wedge sits inside the case.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Thanks for that, Roller, and I hope that I haven't been installing this boot wrong all these years... I do understand about the need for the U-shaped cutout in the rubber to match the U-shaped channel of the clutch fork, but I'm still a bit confused by the wedge-in or wedge-out orientation.

If you look at the part here (the picture with the blue background): https://www.midwest-bayless.com/p-4514- ... 1-new.aspx
Does the side facing upwards in the photo install inside the bellhousing or outside of it?

-Bryan

[RRoller123]

Inside.

The photos in the manual suck (as usual) and don't clearly describe the orientation when there is a choice and it makes a difference (as usual) like with the transmission support bar and yoke assy we talked about last week, I think it was.

Discussed the boot design change with Csaba last week, it is not entirely clear when this 'flip' of the "U" cutout happened. The "U" cutout on the new ones is rotated 180 degrees from the old ones.

This also puts the heavier wall of the opening seal, the part fitting around the case opening to seal it in place, (it is not uniform) inside the case, which seems correct.

"It is all part of life's rich pageant, you know". Clouseau.

[SteinOnkel]

Thanks for the tips, all.

Guibo is new...

Clutch kits for these cars are super expensive. $170 for a Sachs, that's outrageous.

For a flywheel locking tool, I built one for my VW many moons ago. The Crankshaft pulley on those is TTY and receives an ungodly 150nm Perhaps I can modify it to fit the Fiat.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Inside.
"It is all part of life's rich pageant, you know". Clouseau.

Awww, Roller, durn your hide... I guess I have been doing it wrong all these years. D'oh. The good news is that it's probably not too hard to reverse the boot.

"Does yer dawg bite?" Clouseau (and you know the rest)

And for Steiny: some notches cut with a grinder in an appropriately curved piece of metal, and a way to attach that to one of the lower mounting bolts, should do the trick.

-Bryan

[RRoller123]

I had put it in with the wedge OUT, and then Tim installed his with it IN, as he thought that way was correct, and after looking at it, we found the change in the orientation of that stupid U slit, and the interference with the spring, and of course that started a long journey of discovery over a bloody rubber seal... hahahah! And as much as we could tell from the shitty pictures in the manual and on various YouTuba videos, HE was RIGHT, and I was wrong. LOL, always happy to be proven wrong, as long as it gets us forward. "Well shoot back then!" G.S Patton.

"That is not.... my dog"

[davidbruce]

So to be clear are you talking about the transmission input shaft pilot bearing or the clutch release (throw out)bearing? If you're doing a clutch doing both is a no brainer. Most of you will already know this but for those reading that may not. Packing the cavity behind the pilot bearing with bits of bread or even grease will allow you to hydraulic the bearing out. A few sharp blows on a tight fitting dowel in the centre hole will push the bearing out. While you are there, if you haven't already. Check the support bearing for cracks or wear, the u joints for play and tranny input and output seals for signs of weeping. You've got it out already.

[Spider951]

RRoller123 is correct about the clutch lever rubber boot placement - it seems counter-intuitive at first thought, but the boot should be placed concave inward, i.e. toward the throwout bearing/pivot bolt. It's kind of a pain to get the darned thing to fit like that, but believe me, the action of the lever/clutch cable with the throwout bearing is much better with the boot in the right orientation. I found this out the hard way (my knuckles have almost healed up from fighting with it the wrong way 'round, ).

[Odoyle]

Flywheel locking tool from ebay. Waiting on shipping sucked.

[SteinOnkel]

So to be clear are you talking about the transmission input shaft pilot bearing or the clutch release (throw out)bearing? If you're doing a clutch doing both is a no brainer. Most of you will already know this but for those reading that may not. Packing the cavity behind the pilot bearing with bits of bread or even grease will allow you to hydraulic the bearing out. A few sharp blows on a tight fitting dowel in the centre hole will push the bearing out. While you are there, if you haven't already. Check the support bearing for cracks or wear, the u joints for play and tranny input and output seals for signs of weeping. You've got it out already.

I was going to do both.

Am I correct in assuming that the pilot bearing is not part of a run-of-the-mill clutch kit?

[SteinOnkel]

Flywheel locking tool from ebay. Waiting on shipping sucked.

Looks like my homebrew VW tool will work just fine. They're easy to build.

[blazingspider]

Loosen the engine mounts so you can tilt the engine down a bit. Makes it easier to pull the tranny.