clutch question

[81SPIDERMATT]

is it possible to just remove engine leaving the tranny in place?

ideally i would like to disconnect needed things ...roll the car out of shop ...remove engine...roll car back and do the needed work ...then reverse...and go for a drive...i realize up and down on jack stands will have to happen

clutch and cable are being replaced as well as cam seals and fixing some stripped threads holding on exhaust manifold...most likely getting the whole gasket set as i think removing head will make things easy...just by looking at it

is this the easiest way ? open to using others wisdom ...thanks...Matt

[81SPIDERMATT]

ok let me rephrase my question...for a clutch replacement is it easier to pull engine or engine tranny combo.... seems like leaving tranny would be the way ...but don't know about hard to reach bolts...imagine there are a couple to let tranny go .... gonna get done one way or another.....just thought i would ask before diving in....Matt

[18Fiatsandcounting]

To replace just the clutch, I think the answer depends on how your work area is set up and what kinds of tools you have. For me, I've always found it easiest to remove the transmission and leave the engine in place. Raise the car on jackstands, remove the driveshaft support bolts, remove the bolts holding the end of the driveshaft to the input of the differential, slide the splined shaft out of the rear of the transmission, disconnect the speedometer cable, remove the clutch cable, remove the rear transmission mount, tilt the transmission downward at the rear, remove the 4 bolts holding the bellhousing to the rear of the engine, and slide the transmission backwards and out using a rolling jack or transmission jack.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some steps, but I seem to recall it takes about 4 hours to remove the transmission. Another hour or so to remove the clutch and flywheel (and take it to a shop to have it resurfaced if needed). About the same 4 hours to put it back together, assuming no issues.

That being said, if you want to do the work on the engine that you noted, the best course may be to remove just the engine, and it can be done. For me, the problem has always been the lack of an engine hoist or a suitable garage rafter or the like from which to connect a hoist. If you do remove the engine, definitely remove the hood first. I'd also suggest removing the radiator so you don't end up swinging the engine into the radiator.

-Bryan

[tima01864]

May be helpful to remove the shift lever. http://www.hwww.fiatspider.com/f15/view ... =5&t=38852 This was done with the head removed.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

May be helpful to remove the shift lever. http://www.hwww.fiatspider.com/f15/view ... =5&t=38852 This was done with the head removed.

D'oh! I knew I would forget something obvious... Yes, much easier to remove the transmission with the shift lever removed. And that can be one of the hardest steps, unfortunately.

-Bryan

[tima01864]

three bolts and pull it up. getting it back in may require help

[81SPIDERMATT]

hoods off...fluids are draining... car is up on stands and I will be under tomorrow....

does the head have to come off to pull the engine if i am leaving tranny ?

[tima01864]

I decided to send my cylinder head to Jon Logan for a performance build. Just as the head was complete and being sent back decided to have the engine rebuilt, Raising the Compression Ratio. Drove the engine with my Buddy and his engine to Fun Imports in CT after considering all the pros and cons of shipping the whole to Ohio. Removing the transmission would allow the engine to be pulled straight up and out. So while the transmission was out decided to have it looked over and get it to newer condition.
It is getting all done now in unplanned stages that just evolved as we went along, As the opportunity and time is ther, I only have one day a week to work on the car. Removing the head allowed enough space to remove the starter and bellhousing bolts much easier, Removing the transmission allowed the engine to be lifted straight up and out. Remove the radiator while you are at it.
It has all come together nicely, When it is all done and put together we shuld have two nicely sorted Spiders.

[tima01864]

I have to take that back about the shift lever. On my 83 the lever came out easily, But I just took the lever off my old 73 and that would require femoving the spline shaft from the flex disc. Different design, The 73 looks more robust and solid than my 83. Not sure if I could use it?

[RRoller123]

Would have to be able to slide the engine forward to get it off the shaft splines, if the Trans is left in. The entire engine mount system would have to be removed to allow this movement. Pulling the transmission is not very hard (easy for me to say.... Tim was under the cars way more than I ), then the engine pulls straight up and out. Really easy, especially if the head and fuel rail/Intake are already off.

Side comment: Danny was very fast and amazingly inexpensive in rebuilding our two transmissions. Highly recommended. Especially for us as it is a driveable distance and there was essentially same day shipping for only the cost of a tank of gas.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

does the head have to come off to pull the engine if i am leaving tranny ?

As Tima noted above, removing the cylinder head makes the job easier, but the entire engine (block and head) can be removed as one unit. If your lifting equipment is up to the task, of course.

I'm still thinking, for a clutch replacement, dropping the transmission is much easier than removing the engine. My $0.02, inflation adjusted, of course.

-Bryan

[81SPIDERMATT]

ok after staring at my project for a while i think i may go a different route than i had planned ....but credit to posters here for pushing me that way. it occurred to me that the stripped bolts for the manifold are in the head (right?) .... remove the head to fix my bolt problem ...it also puts it on the bench for cam seal replacements... slide the tranny back and do new clutch from under the car ....engine can stay in place ... i will have access if i chose to put a fancy starter in .... put it all back together and go break something else

now for another question.... should i rotate engine to top dead center before removing head ... try not to move anything and it all slides back as it once was....or does the smart person remove head and after back on makes sure all is lined up... to date this will be the furthest i have been into a spider engine....

and is a whole gasket kit a good idea or should i purchase only what i need ...and if yes ...what will i need (head..cam boxes..coolant tee) thanks as always... Matt


p.s. edit .... seeing a few different head gasket options...thin ...stock...super duper ...??????

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I think your plan is a good one. And yes, the manifold studs are in the cylinder head.

As for rotating the engine before removing the cylinder head, I don't think it matters all that much since you will need to line everything up again once you get the cylinder head back on. I suppose you could rotate the crankshaft so that the pistons are in the middle of their travel, so that if you accidentally drop the cylinder head as you're removing it (never a good thing, of course), any valves that are sticking out wouldn't have a piston nearby to hit against.

As for the gasket set, I always just buy a complete set. I have never done the math, but I'm guessing that by the time you add up all the costs for the individual gaskets you'll need (if you can even find them individually), you already have a total that is the same or more than a full set. You could get by with just a new head gasket, but if you're going to the trouble of removing the head, it's a good idea to put new gaskets on everything (head gasket, manifold gaskets, cam box gaskets, cam cover gaskets, cam seals, camshaft end cap gaskets, coolant housing gasket, and I've probably missed some). Again, I'd suggest just getting a full set. The only caution here is that if the cam box gaskets are a different thickness, it can change your valve clearance. I'd suggest talking to the vendors on this aspect.

As for the head gasket, I've always gone with stock, but there are folks out there who have far more expertise on this than I do.

-Bryan

[RRoller123]

Agree about buying the full gasket set, and another problem is that I always seem to forget about one of them, and then have to go find it and wait for delivery.