bushing kit for loud rattles

[Nicketts]

Friends. Considering purchase of AR front suspension bushing kit which includes ball joints, etc. because my car rattles like crazy over anything but smooth highway. Creaks, groans, rattles. My shop can install since I cannot, but does anyone think this will help at all? Is is likely they'll uncover more problems like with A-arms, etc? Because then they or I would have to order and wait again. Maybe a project for the fall. I'm also considering timing belt kit just because I'm worried. My '82 auto has had it replaced once that I know of. But it does not get driven much. Ya know, winter and such up here. Thanks for any advice...

[GeorgeT]

The only way to know is to replace the bushings and see or you could go ahead and order new a-arms and replace them too; new a-arms should come with the bushings installed. If the front bushings are worn out, you should look at replacing the ones in the panhard rod at the rear too.

[KWL82]

Before you buy the kit, does your mechanic specialize in fiat? The ball joints are riveted in so need to drill out and theres the expense of taking out bushings and pressing in new. It might be more cost effective to buy the arms with bushings already pressed in and ball joints installed. The original arms are likely stronger metal but almost 38yrs old so might have cracks and need replacing anyway. Fwiw I replaced the entire front suspension 2 years ago in my unheated chicago garage. I have zero mechanical experience and wasn't nearly as hard as i thought. Actually quite rewarding when all is said and done. You'll wanna replace the shocks as well cuz they're likely shot and get AR lowering springs. Well worth it while there

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I'll jump in here regarding the timing belt: they are cheap, and so I'd just go ahead and replace it. A broken belt and its potential repercussions are not fun. Cheap insurance.

It's possible to replace the bushings and such on the front suspension with just hand tools and a spring compressor, but it's not for the faint of heart. I say this because I just finished the driver's side suspension rebuild on my '71 spider this week, and I'm now working on the passenger side. Lots of swearing, (careful) pounding, and a good strong vise did the job.

As far as noises in the front suspension, also take a look at the anti-sway bar and its bushings, and the upper and lower shock mounts. If these are loose, it can cause clunking sounds in front. I'm guessing that your issue is the ball joints and bushings, but there might be other things going on as well.

-Bryan

[redcars]

Being as you are paying labor to get the job done I would buy the new a arms with everything installed. I have replaced all the wear items in the front suspension on my Spiders and they drive much nicer. No matter what your mileage is most likely your rubber parts are all shot just because of age if they are original.

[bobplyler]

Much easier to just replace the whole arms.

[SteinOnkel]

The bushing kit completely eliminated the rattles you describe on my car.

Scary fact: the upper bal joints were so worn that I was able to pull them apart with one firm yank.

It was a solid day's wrenching, but we do have a press in our garage so that made life easier. Afterwards the ride is so, so good. Best money I've spent on the car so far.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Scary fact: the upper ball joints were so worn that I was able to pull them apart with one firm yank.

Steiny, you are scaring me... Many year ago, I saw an MGB (no jokes please) on the side of the road. While the car was oriented with respect to the road as it should be, the left front tire was, shall we say, no longer vertical against the road but still kinda attached to the suspension. Broken upper ball joint, methinks.

-Bryan

[SteinOnkel]

In many places, they have bi-annual technical inspections for exactly that reason. Not so in California (and most of the U.S. afaik) and so here people are free to drive their cars until the very bitter end...

I bought the fiat for cheap ($3000 is the new $1000 ) and drove it pretty much straight to my garage for new shocks, bushings, brakes all around. Steering was surprisingly intact. Cost about $350 in parts and two weekends in labor - worth every penny!

Cheers
Steiny

[Nicketts]

Hey all,
Thanks for the good advice. I’m going to have my garage look at the suspension first, then order what’s needed, likely the whole arms unless they say they’re fine. I’ll warn them about the rivets and things you’ve all mentioned. No, they’re not Spider specialists but have been pretty good so far. It’s tough to find anyone in this small city. On the plus side, I’ve known them for 25+ years. As for timing belt, I have a receipt from the last change and will verify the date. That “remove the radiator and then bleed the system” part sounds like a lot of work. I can try to explain that as well, especially the bubble behind the thermostat part. Sheesh. Of course, I keep thinking of the “if it ain’t broke” rule. Anyway thanks to all on this great website. You’ve all got me through so far and the car just hums on a smooth, twisty road. Love that!

[DieselSpider]

If the coolant is two years old it is already broke and needs to be flushed before replacing it with fresh along with of course burped of air trapped in the system.

A lot of radiator, water pump and warped head problems could be eliminated by following the 2 year flush schedule for coolant. It is the same schedule for brake fluid too yet many skip those 2 year services too and seem to prefer replacing brake lines, calipers and master cylinders more often instead.

To me its much more cost effective and much safer to pay for the coolant and brake fluid every two years than to risk either a cooling or brake system failure and the potential thousands of dollars in repairs that can be required afterwards to make things right again.

[RRoller123]

Do you feel that there is a usage and mileage component to this, or is it purely time? BF being hydroscopic, I would expect purely time, but coolant sees many mechanical and temperature cycles with use.

[JayBird]

Hi Nicketts,
I started my front suspension rebuild on Monday. Everything came apart nicely but I found my cross member was lose and I have frame cracking around the front mounting bolts. I have had my car on a lift several times and we didn't catch this. Have your garage check this area when they inspect your front suspension. Also I think you'll save time and money if you replace the control arms.

Jay

[DieselSpider]

Do you feel that there is a usage and mileage component to this, or is it purely time? BF being hydroscopic, I would expect purely time, but coolant sees many mechanical and temperature cycles with use.

Once the engine has been heated coolant starts to degrade, acids start to form, so forth and so on. Coolant will start to loose its corrosion inhibitors along with its algecide. In air conditioning systems that use automotive coolant since it does not get heated regularly algae starts growing in a few years and does a pretty good job of insulating the system so no thermal transfer takes place even though the coolant does not become corrosive.

Brake fluid too can also get algae inside it and take on a greenish tinge. My own wife was too busy to allow me time to flush her brakes and kept putting me off until I just got up early one day and put it up on jack stands. It took me the better part of the day to flush the algae out. I almost had to replace the brake reservoir too but was able to get all the algae that had dried on inside of it cleaned out of it with plenty of hot soapy water after removing it from the vehicle. I vacuum evacuated over a quart of brake fluid through the system before it ran clear.

Everyone was literally shocked when they saw the pond scum that was in her brake system.

[RRoller123]

That is very interesting!