Head Gasket Replacement
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- Patron 2018
- Posts: 1199
- Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:57 pm
- Your car is a: 1979 2000 Spider
- Location: Ault, Colorado
Re: Head Gasket Replacement
Goodness gracious! Held up four days due to very slow shipping from a poor eBay seller that I'll avoid in the future!
Thread sealer is here.
Got some bodywork done in the meantime,...
Part of an email from another member:
"I tried a MLS gasket with not much success, and this is after having had the head decked. I suspect any imperfection makes it not good to use the MLS as the tolerances are too slight. That said, I think sometimes my issue is coolant getting in through the intake manifold seal rather than the head gasket. My block has a port at the back (by #4) for coolant to actuate a choke on the carb, yet my 32/36 DFEV carb has an electric choke and doesn't need a coolant line, so my intake is just closed where it meets the block. I suspect I may get some coolant seepage there that then gets drawn in along the #4 intake... My #4 plug always looks bad with a corroded tip/electrode and a greeny tinge after enough miles. So it may not have been the MLS gasket after all. In any event, I've gone back to a regular one.
Only once did I have the dreaded milky oil, knowing then that the head gasket had failed. The engine ran super-rough after that, probably because it was running only only 3 cylinders, and there was a huge amount of white smoke. Other times I can get just a puff know and again, and I suspect it's the intake, as mentioned earlier. Last season I bypassed the heater, used some head-gasket leak additive and it seemed to have ended any troubles. Last last season I drained the coolant and flushed the system, then reconnected the heater. All still seems okay. I have an unheated garage and we have very cold winters so an April start up is always a fingers crossed moment.
I also have used Allison's stud kit rather than the original block bolts. Apparently they give a better clamping force. I tapped the threads of the block and have had the studs in an out more than once. Once I forgot to include sealant for the bottom ends, so coolant bubbled up through the thread of the studs. One of those "Doh!" moments."
Devil's in the details,...!
Thread sealer is here.
Got some bodywork done in the meantime,...
Part of an email from another member:
"I tried a MLS gasket with not much success, and this is after having had the head decked. I suspect any imperfection makes it not good to use the MLS as the tolerances are too slight. That said, I think sometimes my issue is coolant getting in through the intake manifold seal rather than the head gasket. My block has a port at the back (by #4) for coolant to actuate a choke on the carb, yet my 32/36 DFEV carb has an electric choke and doesn't need a coolant line, so my intake is just closed where it meets the block. I suspect I may get some coolant seepage there that then gets drawn in along the #4 intake... My #4 plug always looks bad with a corroded tip/electrode and a greeny tinge after enough miles. So it may not have been the MLS gasket after all. In any event, I've gone back to a regular one.
Only once did I have the dreaded milky oil, knowing then that the head gasket had failed. The engine ran super-rough after that, probably because it was running only only 3 cylinders, and there was a huge amount of white smoke. Other times I can get just a puff know and again, and I suspect it's the intake, as mentioned earlier. Last season I bypassed the heater, used some head-gasket leak additive and it seemed to have ended any troubles. Last last season I drained the coolant and flushed the system, then reconnected the heater. All still seems okay. I have an unheated garage and we have very cold winters so an April start up is always a fingers crossed moment.
I also have used Allison's stud kit rather than the original block bolts. Apparently they give a better clamping force. I tapped the threads of the block and have had the studs in an out more than once. Once I forgot to include sealant for the bottom ends, so coolant bubbled up through the thread of the studs. One of those "Doh!" moments."
Devil's in the details,...!
1988 Mazda RX-7
1979 Fiat Spider 2000
1978 3/4 ton Chev 4x4 P/U "FRANKENTRUCK"
1976 Camaro
1972 VW Superbeetle
1969 Ford F100
1968 Mustang coupe
1979 Fiat Spider 2000
1978 3/4 ton Chev 4x4 P/U "FRANKENTRUCK"
1976 Camaro
1972 VW Superbeetle
1969 Ford F100
1968 Mustang coupe
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- Posts: 3798
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:23 pm
- Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
- Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Head Gasket Replacement
Can't wait to hear how it works out!
Is the plan to: put thread sealer in head bolt (stud) holes in block, put cylinder head on, insert studs, put nuts/washers on studs, tighten that bad boy down?
-Bryan
Is the plan to: put thread sealer in head bolt (stud) holes in block, put cylinder head on, insert studs, put nuts/washers on studs, tighten that bad boy down?
-Bryan
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- Patron 2018
- Posts: 1199
- Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:57 pm
- Your car is a: 1979 2000 Spider
- Location: Ault, Colorado
Re: Head Gasket Replacement
Far more simple. Gasket and head are in place,...I'll apply thread sealant to each lower stud thread, nut/washer applied flush with the top of each stud (lightly oiled - 30W), and set studs in place to that depth with my 1/8" long Allen wrench,...not torquing them.
Then torque the nuts, in proper order and in three steps, to 54ftlbs.
I'll rinse my engine's water galleries out the side drain, and re-assemble the rest,...
Manyana!
Then torque the nuts, in proper order and in three steps, to 54ftlbs.
I'll rinse my engine's water galleries out the side drain, and re-assemble the rest,...
Manyana!
1988 Mazda RX-7
1979 Fiat Spider 2000
1978 3/4 ton Chev 4x4 P/U "FRANKENTRUCK"
1976 Camaro
1972 VW Superbeetle
1969 Ford F100
1968 Mustang coupe
1979 Fiat Spider 2000
1978 3/4 ton Chev 4x4 P/U "FRANKENTRUCK"
1976 Camaro
1972 VW Superbeetle
1969 Ford F100
1968 Mustang coupe
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- Patron 2018
- Posts: 1199
- Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:57 pm
- Your car is a: 1979 2000 Spider
- Location: Ault, Colorado
Re: Head Gasket Replacement
Wow! That was easy!
Thread sealant on the bottom ends of the head studs, light oil on the tops. Set them in place by hand. Torque to 20ftlbs, check, 40ftlbs, check, 54ftlbs, check. Rinse coolant chambers with 50/50 DexCool 'till clear, then plug the block.
Re-assemble externals.
New Gates belt 'gives no quarter'! Nice and snug, when in place around the tensioner pulley,...
Ready to rotate two times to check timing:
I like this pic, 'cause it shows the entire engine set to timing marks to fire on #4,...both cam pulleys, aux. pulley, crank pulley (at fresh marks), and rotor at straight forward position for #4 cap contact:
Doesn't my crankshaft pulley rotate clockwise with engine rotation? I'll wait to hear from you guys before I muck up the first turn,...thanks.
Todd.
Thread sealant on the bottom ends of the head studs, light oil on the tops. Set them in place by hand. Torque to 20ftlbs, check, 40ftlbs, check, 54ftlbs, check. Rinse coolant chambers with 50/50 DexCool 'till clear, then plug the block.
Re-assemble externals.
New Gates belt 'gives no quarter'! Nice and snug, when in place around the tensioner pulley,...
Ready to rotate two times to check timing:
I like this pic, 'cause it shows the entire engine set to timing marks to fire on #4,...both cam pulleys, aux. pulley, crank pulley (at fresh marks), and rotor at straight forward position for #4 cap contact:
Doesn't my crankshaft pulley rotate clockwise with engine rotation? I'll wait to hear from you guys before I muck up the first turn,...thanks.
Todd.
1988 Mazda RX-7
1979 Fiat Spider 2000
1978 3/4 ton Chev 4x4 P/U "FRANKENTRUCK"
1976 Camaro
1972 VW Superbeetle
1969 Ford F100
1968 Mustang coupe
1979 Fiat Spider 2000
1978 3/4 ton Chev 4x4 P/U "FRANKENTRUCK"
1976 Camaro
1972 VW Superbeetle
1969 Ford F100
1968 Mustang coupe
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- Posts: 3798
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:23 pm
- Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
- Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Head Gasket Replacement
Todd, yes, looking from the front of the car towards the rear, the engine rotation is clockwise. From the perspective of the driver's seat looking forward through the windshield, it would be counterclockwise.
If you're not seeing that, well, we have some work to do...
-Bryan
If you're not seeing that, well, we have some work to do...
-Bryan
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- Patron 2018
- Posts: 1199
- Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:57 pm
- Your car is a: 1979 2000 Spider
- Location: Ault, Colorado
Re: Head Gasket Replacement
No, man,...I just don't want to move ANYTHING until I'm sure of which direction I'm to move! Everything is perfect, so far!
Clockwise (from the front) it will be,...that's what I thought.
First full turn. Should be a 'no-brainer', since everything was marked at TDC #4, and nothing has been moved.
Thanks, Bryan!
Clockwise (from the front) it will be,...that's what I thought.
First full turn. Should be a 'no-brainer', since everything was marked at TDC #4, and nothing has been moved.
Thanks, Bryan!
1988 Mazda RX-7
1979 Fiat Spider 2000
1978 3/4 ton Chev 4x4 P/U "FRANKENTRUCK"
1976 Camaro
1972 VW Superbeetle
1969 Ford F100
1968 Mustang coupe
1979 Fiat Spider 2000
1978 3/4 ton Chev 4x4 P/U "FRANKENTRUCK"
1976 Camaro
1972 VW Superbeetle
1969 Ford F100
1968 Mustang coupe
- geospider
- Patron 2020
- Posts: 585
- Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:07 pm
- Your car is a: 1979 Spider 2000
- Location: concord, ca
Re: Head Gasket Replacement
Todd,
Second time I have tried to respond.
All looks great. Same process I did with the studs. Was quite straight forward and easy,
BUt, next time (hopefully no next time) if you put the intake on before dropping the head, it's much easier to do those 2 bottom, inside bolts. Although I have gotten pretty good at it given my recent intake manifold history.
Hoping you get on the road soon; very close.
Now I have a "jingling" type noise at front of oil pan. Oil pump???
Geo
Second time I have tried to respond.
All looks great. Same process I did with the studs. Was quite straight forward and easy,
BUt, next time (hopefully no next time) if you put the intake on before dropping the head, it's much easier to do those 2 bottom, inside bolts. Although I have gotten pretty good at it given my recent intake manifold history.
Hoping you get on the road soon; very close.
Now I have a "jingling" type noise at front of oil pan. Oil pump???
Geo
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- Posts: 3798
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:23 pm
- Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
- Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Head Gasket Replacement
Not to derail Todd's thread, but a few thoughts: alternator bearing? timing belt tensioner bearing? Loose bracket/cover somewhere? -Bryangeospider wrote:Now I have a "jingling" type noise at front of oil pan. Oil pump???
- geospider
- Patron 2020
- Posts: 585
- Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:07 pm
- Your car is a: 1979 Spider 2000
- Location: concord, ca
Re: Head Gasket Replacement
Thanks and Hoping for any of those vs oil pump.
Todd; keep it coming.
Geo
Todd; keep it coming.
Geo
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- Patron 2018
- Posts: 1199
- Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:57 pm
- Your car is a: 1979 2000 Spider
- Location: Ault, Colorado
Re: Head Gasket Replacement
I will! Thanks. I'm not done with the replacement pictorial yet,...
You should investigate all of the BS that's on the internet about Dexcool. Not organic acid technology in particular, but about Dexcool! Amazing what kind of engine failures people have attributed to GM's coolant,...
Anyway, sounds like the right stuff for steel block and aluminum head,...as opposed to the ol' ethylene glycol (green stuff).
I'll keep using green in my engines with steel heads and blocks, but orange is proper for our '02 Trailblazer's engine (~240,000 miles, so far), so I'll swap over this Fiat engine since I have it completely rinsed out and (mostly) dry. I've got plenty of NAPA's orange Dexcool equivalent.
BTW,...my research HAS shown why folks have had problems with Dexcool,...DO NOT MIX antifreezes! Green and orange = BROWN SLUDGE.
Painted my exhaust shield with high temp flat black, just in case I'm stuck with it. Looks a lot better, anyway.
You should investigate all of the BS that's on the internet about Dexcool. Not organic acid technology in particular, but about Dexcool! Amazing what kind of engine failures people have attributed to GM's coolant,...
Anyway, sounds like the right stuff for steel block and aluminum head,...as opposed to the ol' ethylene glycol (green stuff).
I'll keep using green in my engines with steel heads and blocks, but orange is proper for our '02 Trailblazer's engine (~240,000 miles, so far), so I'll swap over this Fiat engine since I have it completely rinsed out and (mostly) dry. I've got plenty of NAPA's orange Dexcool equivalent.
BTW,...my research HAS shown why folks have had problems with Dexcool,...DO NOT MIX antifreezes! Green and orange = BROWN SLUDGE.
Painted my exhaust shield with high temp flat black, just in case I'm stuck with it. Looks a lot better, anyway.
1988 Mazda RX-7
1979 Fiat Spider 2000
1978 3/4 ton Chev 4x4 P/U "FRANKENTRUCK"
1976 Camaro
1972 VW Superbeetle
1969 Ford F100
1968 Mustang coupe
1979 Fiat Spider 2000
1978 3/4 ton Chev 4x4 P/U "FRANKENTRUCK"
1976 Camaro
1972 VW Superbeetle
1969 Ford F100
1968 Mustang coupe
-
- Patron 2018
- Posts: 1199
- Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:57 pm
- Your car is a: 1979 2000 Spider
- Location: Ault, Colorado
Re: Head Gasket Replacement
COOL! I musta slopped another engine together well enough,...once around, literally 'by hand', and nothin' broke, all timing marks are once again, dead-on. Time to tighten down the tensioner bolt and it's spring retaining bolt. Then I can get to tightening that big, bad nut down and move on to final assembly,...
Oh, and those intake manifold bolts are not that hard for me to get to, with a single plane manifold and all of that 1979 emissions CRAP outta there! You know, that emissions stuff was actually making the car run crappy,...
Of course, head bolts with insufficient torque was really causing it to run bad!
My Spider will be running without it's factory Fiat timing belt rear tins this time,...only the big yellow guard in front. What am I gonna do with them? I guess, the same thing that I'm gonna do with my old, factory Fiat front calipers,...junk 'em. Know of anybody that would like them? They're ORIGINAL Fiat, tins in perfect shape, calipers certainly rebuildable,...too bad.
Hope it's minor, geospider! ya know,...loose horn,...or similar.
Oh, and those intake manifold bolts are not that hard for me to get to, with a single plane manifold and all of that 1979 emissions CRAP outta there! You know, that emissions stuff was actually making the car run crappy,...
Of course, head bolts with insufficient torque was really causing it to run bad!
My Spider will be running without it's factory Fiat timing belt rear tins this time,...only the big yellow guard in front. What am I gonna do with them? I guess, the same thing that I'm gonna do with my old, factory Fiat front calipers,...junk 'em. Know of anybody that would like them? They're ORIGINAL Fiat, tins in perfect shape, calipers certainly rebuildable,...too bad.
Hope it's minor, geospider! ya know,...loose horn,...or similar.
1988 Mazda RX-7
1979 Fiat Spider 2000
1978 3/4 ton Chev 4x4 P/U "FRANKENTRUCK"
1976 Camaro
1972 VW Superbeetle
1969 Ford F100
1968 Mustang coupe
1979 Fiat Spider 2000
1978 3/4 ton Chev 4x4 P/U "FRANKENTRUCK"
1976 Camaro
1972 VW Superbeetle
1969 Ford F100
1968 Mustang coupe
-
- Patron 2018
- Posts: 1199
- Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:57 pm
- Your car is a: 1979 2000 Spider
- Location: Ault, Colorado
Re: Head Gasket Replacement
Damn! Too hot to open the garage and start the engine today,...103F!
Perhaps this evening,...
Weather cools off a bit after today, in any case.
All have a good weekend and try to stay cool. Best of luck to the east and south USA - they're supposed to toast in the next couple of days.
Todd.
Perhaps this evening,...
Weather cools off a bit after today, in any case.
All have a good weekend and try to stay cool. Best of luck to the east and south USA - they're supposed to toast in the next couple of days.
Todd.
1988 Mazda RX-7
1979 Fiat Spider 2000
1978 3/4 ton Chev 4x4 P/U "FRANKENTRUCK"
1976 Camaro
1972 VW Superbeetle
1969 Ford F100
1968 Mustang coupe
1979 Fiat Spider 2000
1978 3/4 ton Chev 4x4 P/U "FRANKENTRUCK"
1976 Camaro
1972 VW Superbeetle
1969 Ford F100
1968 Mustang coupe
-
- Patron 2018
- Posts: 1199
- Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:57 pm
- Your car is a: 1979 2000 Spider
- Location: Ault, Colorado
Re: Head Gasket Replacement
dinghyguy says I should list my parts and supplies somewhere for other readers. So,...
AutoRicambi had a whole kit for timing belt replacement, so I bought it.
Intake and exhaust manifold gaskets are easily found, as are a number of head gaskets. And I have a very stock 2000cc, so I bought a standard head gasket.
Loctite makes a thread sealant "Head Bolt and Water Jacket Sealant" specific for our purpose, 1158514.
I was able to chase all of my head bolt threads with an old head bolt, so I did not need a tap or chase,...
And I used Allison's Automotive's head stud kit,...just because. Better fastener technology,...
Oh, and I changed from 'green' (ethylene glycol), to 'orange' (Organic Acid Technology), antifreeze due to it's better aluminum protection.
I think that covers the necessities,...More specific info can also be found in the body of the pictorial,...please look. It's here to help!
More after I start this engine,...cross your fingers. please!
AutoRicambi had a whole kit for timing belt replacement, so I bought it.
Intake and exhaust manifold gaskets are easily found, as are a number of head gaskets. And I have a very stock 2000cc, so I bought a standard head gasket.
Loctite makes a thread sealant "Head Bolt and Water Jacket Sealant" specific for our purpose, 1158514.
I was able to chase all of my head bolt threads with an old head bolt, so I did not need a tap or chase,...
And I used Allison's Automotive's head stud kit,...just because. Better fastener technology,...
Oh, and I changed from 'green' (ethylene glycol), to 'orange' (Organic Acid Technology), antifreeze due to it's better aluminum protection.
I think that covers the necessities,...More specific info can also be found in the body of the pictorial,...please look. It's here to help!
More after I start this engine,...cross your fingers. please!
1988 Mazda RX-7
1979 Fiat Spider 2000
1978 3/4 ton Chev 4x4 P/U "FRANKENTRUCK"
1976 Camaro
1972 VW Superbeetle
1969 Ford F100
1968 Mustang coupe
1979 Fiat Spider 2000
1978 3/4 ton Chev 4x4 P/U "FRANKENTRUCK"
1976 Camaro
1972 VW Superbeetle
1969 Ford F100
1968 Mustang coupe
-
- Posts: 3798
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:23 pm
- Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
- Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Head Gasket Replacement
Thanks for the info, and yes, fingers firmly crossed. When I get everything together on an engine, I always spin the crankshaft a few turns by hand (not with the starter) just to make sure I didn't do something stupid like leave a screwdriver in a combustion chamber or the like...
Just a suggestion.
-Bryan
Just a suggestion.
-Bryan
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- Patron 2018
- Posts: 1199
- Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:57 pm
- Your car is a: 1979 2000 Spider
- Location: Ault, Colorado
Re: Head Gasket Replacement
Already been done,...and full external inspection to review bolt/nut tightening, too.
1988 Mazda RX-7
1979 Fiat Spider 2000
1978 3/4 ton Chev 4x4 P/U "FRANKENTRUCK"
1976 Camaro
1972 VW Superbeetle
1969 Ford F100
1968 Mustang coupe
1979 Fiat Spider 2000
1978 3/4 ton Chev 4x4 P/U "FRANKENTRUCK"
1976 Camaro
1972 VW Superbeetle
1969 Ford F100
1968 Mustang coupe