Gasket and belt recommendations?

[wetminkey]

Obvious coolant leak to #3,...and compression results: #1: 150, #2: 155, #3: 133, #4: 160,...
Time for a head gasket.
I wanted to see what recommendations the members might have for head gaskets and timing belts?
New intake and exhaust gaskets will be necessary,...re-use distributor gasket. And I think I'll replace head bolts at the same time,...I do not know how many times they've been stressed. I think that covers everything,...
I hope to drive this car, and quit having to fix it, someday,...
Thanks for any recommendations. Todd.

[SteinOnkel]

I run Gates belt in all my cars. Never had an issue with it.

I would expect compression to be higher with a coolant (or oil) leak, as the liquid seals up the rings. You'll see what the deal is when you pull the head off.

I hope to drive this car, and quit having to fix it, someday,...

That's when you get into upgrades

[wetminkey]

As I look back in my notes, I find evidence of plug fouling in #3 for many years,...but the car has not been driven enough for it to show symptoms. A couple of miles, limping home with a semi-seized front disc brake, changed that!
As I stated, the coolant leak is obvious,...moist plug and piston top + terrible plug fouling. Very sudden change. I think a small breach in the gasket seal became a much larger one,...
Bought the mechanically abused car in 2000. I installed a new short block, had the head rebuilt/resurfaced, and I rebuilt the cams. I replaced most of the front end suspension/steering at that time and rebuilt the brakes. Canvas top to keep water out,...Then a number of years of no more than warm ups and very short drives.
Rear suspension is all new, recently, as is the entire driveshaft. And when the 1979 emissions crap became unmanageable this spring, out went the dual plane and ADHA,...in went the DFEV and single plane intake. The car came with the "4-2-1" exhaust, and has a new catalytic converter with larger piping, and a single resonator done a couple of years ago.
Upgrades that I expect are all cosmetic, and I have a new windshield carefully stored away right now for when I figure out WHAT I'm going to do with the dash,...refinish, or replace? Upholstery and paint will nearly finish it then,...

[wetminkey]

A really nice shop, with great mechanics, has established itself just a couple of miles south of me (next town,...four miles).
They want about what I would guess to do the job (in my opinion, reasonable), and I believe they will provide me with a three year guarantee, so I'm inclined to have them replace the gasket!
They can also do it in about two hours,...I would need frequent breaks of THAT length!
I expect to co-ordinate closely with them and be a parts and information source,...we'll see.
Thanks, SteinOnkel.
Todd.

[SteinOnkel]

Only thing I take my cars into shops for are alignments, tire mounting and wheel balancing. I'm sick and tired of self-proclaimed "experts" cutting corners to make a buck.

The s/o picked up an Audi that was excursively serviced at the premier Audi dealership in our state's capitol. The quality of the work is atrocious across the board. So many cut corners, so many zip-ties.

My 124 was also only serviced at the local Fiat "expert". Horrendous, down-right dangerous repairs were done on that car. Tons of fasteners replaced with SAE bolts of incorrect grades, oftentimes missing lock washers on critical safety related parts. Every steering joint was loose. There's a lot of crappy mechanics out there, especially now while the economy is booming. The next crash will be a humbling experience to a lot of these people, but I digress.

You're already ahead of these muppets by properly diagnosing it, thinking about replacing bolts that maybe don't need replacing, which brands of parts to buy etc.

Hopefully you will have a better experience.

Cheers
Steiny

[geospider]

tried posting, did't show up, so here again

Todd,

Geez, can't believe you have another big job to do.

Ok; parts: I used the timing belt kit from AR; came with everything: Gates, belt, water pump, tensioner bearing, etc and added their head gasket.
for bolts, I opted for the head studs from Allison's; worked great. Just have an extra hand in putting the head back on carefully.
the toughest part for me is getting the TIGHT belt back on, crazy, but came up with an idea that worked.

good luck get it going.
I do agree that finding someone who really knows these is difficult. We have all researched more about these than any local garage. Remember, they probably never see these.

Geo

btw: smog garbage off and good stuff on' love it
.

[wetminkey]

Until recently I NEVER took ANY of my vehicles (see what I own RIGHT NOW, below) to any mechanics, PERIOD. As Steiney states, I've never trusted 'em.
I've had these guys do work on one of my Chevy's ('02) and a starter for my '98 4Runner. These folks do very good work, and I would never say that unless I had inspected their work VERY carefully. They are also quite accommodating to me, since they know that I mechanic too. I don't expect them to know this car,...I expect to be "on call" for them and provide parts and info, as necessary,...I have the Fiat Shop Manual. I've done this before and have a TON of notes that I've added into the text of the manual.
I'm gonna see what they'll let me get away with,...if I'm not pleased, I'll be tackling the job again.
If they'll give me a three year guarantee, I think I'll entertain the idea of them doing it! I've put this head on twice, and it's leaked twice,...(of course, that VERY ODD extra thermostat, in the coolant "T", might have had something to do with previous failure!? Ya think?). Recall that I said that the car had been mechanically abused,...it's come a long way since the bad engine reed valves were igniting air cleaner elements!

[wetminkey]

I've pondered for several days and concluded that:
1.) I know far more about this engine than the guys at Jay's Automotive, or most any mechanic, already.
2.) I have done this previously (yeah,...nearly 20 years ago!), and I have my good old Fiat Shop Manual.
3.) I now have an entire forum available, full of answers and advice, that I NEVER had in the past!
I've gotten lazy in my older age, and I do not look forward to another large mechanical project,...but, what the hell? I'm not dead, yet!
Too bad about the other projects that I had planned for this summer,...
This will put me, mechanically, back at about 'square three' with this car: brakes, suspension/steering, driveline all rebuilt/replaced and functional. It rolls easily, and the brakes are solid, when applied. Time to move (again) to square four,...
I'll start collecting parts. Good to know that you guys are out there for technical support,...and moral support if needed, too.

First question: automatic transmission,...how to block the crankshaft from turning? My notes say screwdriver through the flexplate, but I think I could find a more PROPER method, this time.
Thanks, all!
Todd.

[manoa matt]

Fel-pro head gasket can be had for around $20 on Amazon and is well made. What others, and the manuals will tell you is you have to remove the front crank pulley to remove and re-install the belt. I have been successful at removing and re-installing belts on 79 and later spiders without taking the pulley off. You just need to remove the belt from the other pulleys first and angle and guide the belt at the right angle between the pulley and the front main seal housing flange that is close to the pulley.

[SteinOnkel]

I would not worry about locking the crankshaft. Just don't be ham-fisted and rotate the crankshaft when you put the new belt back on.

I've recently done the timing belt job from hell (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdh2kuYQIds), 25 hours of labor. They do make a tool to lock the crankshaft, but it is nigh impossible to install without removing three more bulky components. So then I thought...wait a second. My other cars* do not have any way of locking the crank and the basic principle is completely the same.

So I did it without locking it. Worked perfectly fine.

And why wouldn't it? The only thing that matters is that when everything is back together, the timing marks line up.

*In fact on one of my cars (16V VW) there is no easy way of locking the crank. And I wish there was, because it takes ten tries to slide the belt over the two camshaft wheels WITHOUT moving the crank one tooth over.

Cheers
Steiny

[wetminkey]

Thanks, guys! Shop manual (of course) says to remove the crankshaft pulley - 180ftlbs,...so locking the shaft would be necessary.
And I did remove the pulley from the "dead" engine that the car came with,...it's torqued onto the front of this engine's shaft (but I seriously DOUBT that I torqued it to 180! Holy Smokes!!). I'm glad that the TH180's flexplate survived the "screwdriver blocking method" last time, and you have NO IDEA how glad I am to hear that I can R&R the timing belt without removing the pulley!! Whew! Thanks, guys! I'll check out the link,...
I've got contact info for geospider and dinghyguy, and I can always PM a number of good friends here on the forum, plus the feedback that I can get through posting, so I think I can start planning garaging the Spider in my main garage. It could be a week, or two before I can begin. Time to gather parts,...

P.S. The link - twin turbo Audi - that's insane! No wonder I like '50's thru '70's mechanics,...

[redcars]

If you find out that you need to remove the crank pulley just put a chain wrench around it. Then put a pipe on the chain wrench. The crankshaft isn't locked, but you can easily remove the crank bolt.

[wetminkey]

Geeze! Thanks, redcars!
I HAVE a nice chain wrench,...glad you reminded me of it! I'll use it if necessary.
I have no timing marks that I know of, so I'll have to determine TDC by present setup, and try to arrange for a permanent marker. My timing belt cover has a couple of plastic ridges that I think are supposed to be timing marks,...
My Fiat Shop Manual has helped me through this before, I can surely do it now, with all the help from this forum!
I will put together another pictorial,...
As soon as I get my Superbeetle completed, and outta the main garage! Two weeks,...

[18Fiatsandcounting]

The method that I've always used to find TDC on a Fiat engine is to remove the #1 sparkplug and insert a fairly large, long screwdriver into the hole so that the tip rides on the top of the piston. Make sure that the screwdriver is large and long enough so that it doesn't drop into the hole of course... At any rate, you can rotate the crankshaft by hand and watch the screwdriver rise and fall, and I've found it to be quite sensitive to moving the crankshaft either side of TDC. I wouldn't recommend using the starter motor while a screwdriver is in the plug hole, though!

In addition, with the timing belt removed, you can often "feel" TDC as you rotate the crankshaft pulley by hand as there will be a "smoother, easier" spot in the rotation immediately around TDC as the pistons aren't moving up and down very much at that point (and thus less piston ring friction). Once you find the boundaries on either side of this sweet spot in the rotation, TDC is right in the middle. Just make sure you're not at the point where pistons 1 and 4 are at BDC and 2 and 3 are at TDC as the feel will be the same.

Ask away with the questions, and good luck!

-Bryan

[wetminkey]

Thanks, Bryan! Present position of distributor, cams, and any marks I can find on the crank pulley will guide me back to my proper engine timing, but I know of the method that you describe. I'll see if I can mark a spot on the pulley that lines up with the 'timing marks' on my plastic, yellow timing cover (now that I know they are there). Maybe I can find a better engine landmark to use,...we'll see.
Somehow there is some confusion as to which cylinder TDC the marks and timing are made at. Do all of the timing marks on a Fiat engine line up at TDC/compression stroke for #1 (distributor rotor, cams at pointers, crank pulley mark at engine pointer)? Seems like I've seen some confusion involving timing and #4 cylinder,...
Oh, BTW, with the method you describe, I just try to get close to TDC, and then a wooden pencil, or plastic straw works well for fine-tuning TDC,...
I have a strap wrench that I can use to turn the engine by hand, so I should be OK there,...I actually have a tremendous number of tools that I did not have when I last did this chore,...and notes, too! It should be much easier this time,...
But I'll be damned if the little DOHC four doesn't fire right up run just great,...Give it a couple of miles, though, and #3 starts to foul with antifreeze moisture. Bummer to have to take it apart. Ah well,...could be a lot worse.
Thanks, again.