Tragedy has struck. ETA head gasket

[Daddio]

Recommend for head gasket?
https://imgur.com/9n5nqw6

no
Head gasket is the ONE gasket in the engine that goes in dry.
You wouldn't want anything interfering with the fire rings, would you? Or squishing into the cylinders?
Most head gaskets have a type of sealant on them around the edges, usually slightly raised red-ish silicone, like your old gasket.
Put the gasket on the dowels on the block and (carefully!) set the head on with a minimum of 'sliding' motion; directly over the dowels if possible.

[Daddio]

From your pictures, you have a long way to go to get the surfaces clean enough; I like to see the old machining on the block and head- think alcohol or brake cleaner clean.
edit
You may want to check the head for warpage too, especially the possible low spots between the cylinders (like where it burned between 1 & 2). In the event it has needs, If you aren't skilled, have it surfaced. If skilled, you may get away with a light sanding.
Hard to work on the car when you'd rather be driving, isn't it?

[maluminse]

Daddio is correct in that it sounds like your auxiliary shaft is hitting something internal to the engine (likely a connecting rod). The engine timing belt goes around 4 pulleys and the tensioner/idler pulley. The 4 pulleys are one on the crankshaft, the 2 camshaft pulleys, and the auxiliary shaft pulley. The auxiliary shaft drives three things: the oil pump, the distributor (if not mounted on the exhaust camshaft), and a mechanical fuel pump if the engine has one. The auxiliary shaft has a lob on it that, when the shaft spins around, it pumps the lever on the fuel pump and thus operates it.

If the auxiliary shaft is not timed correctly with respect to the rest of the engine, this lobe on the auxiliary shaft can interfere with the connecting rod for one of the cylinders and cause major internal damage. So, it is VERY important that you not run the engine, or spin it around with the starter motor, until all the pulleys are timed properly. If the head is removed, you don't have to worry about the camshaft pulleys, but you still need to make sure the auxiliary shaft lobe isn't hitting.

-Bryan

Ok located Aux shaft. It turns freely without the belt. I found the hole/dot to align with the spring. Distributor runs off cam up top. Aux shaft must only drive the oil pump I guess. Prior to blowing the gasket oil pressure was good.

So the aux shaft should not be able to make complete rotations when belt is not connected?

I wont spin anything until all the lines are lined up. Then Ill slowly spin with my big wrench on the crank before trying to fire her up.

But new snag at the head.


The head gasket wont thread the dowel. It lines up perfect. I got it from Autoricambi. https://autoricambi.us/products/head-ga ... erformance


The brass hole for the dowel is too small.

I pressed firmly with thumbs and it wont go. Im going to double check with them in the morning that its the right one.

Some trick to getting the gasket over the dowel?

btw thanks for all the help. Really much appreciated.

[maluminse]

From your pictures, you have a long way to go to get the surfaces clean enough; I like to see the old machining on the block and head- think alcohol or brake cleaner clean.
edit
You may want to check the head for warpage too, especially the possible low spots between the cylinders (like where it burned between 1 & 2). In the event it has needs, If you aren't skilled, have it surfaced. If skilled, you may get away with a light sanding.
Hard to work on the car when you'd rather be driving, isn't it?

This is true. What do you recommend I clean it with? I dont want to go too abrasive and create grooves.

[maluminse]

Daddio is correct in that it sounds like your auxiliary shaft is hitting something internal to the engine (likely a connecting rod). The engine timing belt goes around 4 pulleys and the tensioner/idler pulley. The 4 pulleys are one on the crankshaft, the 2 camshaft pulleys, and the auxiliary shaft pulley. The auxiliary shaft drives three things: the oil pump, the distributor (if not mounted on the exhaust camshaft), and a mechanical fuel pump if the engine has one. The auxiliary shaft has a lob on it that, when the shaft spins around, it pumps the lever on the fuel pump and thus operates it.

If the auxiliary shaft is not timed correctly with respect to the rest of the engine, this lobe on the auxiliary shaft can interfere with the connecting rod for one of the cylinders and cause major internal damage. So, it is VERY important that you not run the engine, or spin it around with the starter motor, until all the pulleys are timed properly. If the head is removed, you don't have to worry about the camshaft pulleys, but you still need to make sure the auxiliary shaft lobe isn't hitting.

-Bryan

Awesome. Thanks for the input. I turned the crank like four cycles at least with a big wrench. I lubed the cylinder with some clean oil. It didnt hit anything or freeze up.

Well to be honest...I was turing it and abrupt stop. My heart sunk and I was trying to imagine what possible could have fouled. Then I realized the very long wrench was hitting the water pump. lol! I hope thats it . But after that I turned the crank and it moves smoothly. I left it at 1 and 4 tdc and aligned the aux to the spring.

[Daddio]

Rotating the crank by itself for maintenance is generally ok if you keep the cylinders (lightly) oiled, the bearings retain enough oil not to worry about;

I use a single edge razor blade to remove old gasket; scotchbrite pad and (my choice for solvent) denatured alcohol for the next step; if your engine was apart recently, as you said initially, this should be enough- think metal= shiny. I don't mean polished, just clean. As I said, I like seeing old machining marks, the surface parts were worked to before stuff started to build up over time.

My engine (the current build) is on a stand, and I'm not close to opening the sealed head gasket package yet; if it didn't fit the dowels I'd check the dowels aren't mushroomed or kluged up otherwise before forcing the issue.

Does the new HG follow the outline of the old? they should match quite closely; you should be able to tell if it's like the old one or not.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

On the auxiliary shaft: I didn't mean to scare you, as the timing of this is really only critical when the engine is running or being turned over by the starter motor. With the cylinder head removed, you should be able to rotate the crankshaft fully without running into problems, and if you do, just rotate the auxiliary shaft cam by 90 degrees and try the crankshaft again, and likely it will rotate just fine. The aux. shaft lobe and connecting rod only hit in a very limited set of rotational circumstances. At any rate, sounds like you're OK on this issue.

On the head gasket: The one you got from AutoRicambi looks right, and I've never run into a problem with a head gasket that wouldn't fit over the two locater "dowels" (pins) on the opposite sides of the block, one in front and one in the rear. Sometimes I've had to gently push the metal-reinforced opening of the head gasket over these pins, but they always fit. I'd try calling AutoRicambi and seeing what they have to say.

On cleaning the block (and I see Daddio has also replied while I was typing): If I am doing this with the engine in the car, I just scrape off as much of the old gasket and any other residue with a sharp putty knife or a razor blade scraper, being careful not to gouge any marks in the metal face. I then go over it with a hand sanding block with 240 grit emery paper, and perhaps finish up with 400 or 600 grit. Some people might recommend leaving a bit of a surface roughness in the block face to allow it to "bite into" the gasket better, but I just sand it fairly smooth. Do not use steel wool or cheap sandpaper or the like as this almost always sheds traces of wire or sand that land in your piston rings or coolant passages. Do try to keep as much crap out of the coolant passages as possible, and I usually stuff a rag or the like into the cylinder bores before beginning the cleaning process. After you're done, you can also vacuum out, or blow out if you have an air compressor, any debris that might be left behind.

-Bryan

[Daddio]

There's also an oil passage that feeds the head to be especially careful to keep stuff out of, it comes straight from the main oil gallery. You'll probably get some stuff in the crankcase too through the drainbacks.

[RRoller123]

[maluminse]

Rotating the crank by itself for maintenance is generally ok if you keep the cylinders (lightly) oiled, the bearings retain enough oil not to worry about;

I use a single edge razor blade to remove old gasket; scotchbrite pad and (my choice for solvent) denatured alcohol for the next step; if your engine was apart recently, as you said initially, this should be enough- think metal= shiny. I don't mean polished, just clean. As I said, I like seeing old machining marks, the surface parts were worked to before stuff started to build up over time.

My engine (the current build) is on a stand, and I'm not close to opening the sealed head gasket package yet; if it didn't fit the dowels I'd check the dowels aren't mushroomed or kluged up otherwise before forcing the issue.

Does the new HG follow the outline of the old? they should match quite closely; you should be able to tell if it's like the old one or not.

Talked to AutoRicambi. It appears the 'high performance' gasket dowel hole is not sized properly. He said I could drill it out or return it. Im going to drill it out. Is pretty close so it shouldnt be a problem. Well see.

Check on the razor, did that. I used a dish brillo pad to scrub, using wd40 as a solvent. Most of it feels finger smooth. I have two days before the timing belt arrives. Ill put some more elbow grease into it.

[maluminse]

On the auxiliary shaft: I didn't mean to scare you, as the timing of this is really only critical when the engine is running or being turned over by the starter motor. With the cylinder head removed, you should be able to rotate the crankshaft fully without running into problems, and if you do, just rotate the auxiliary shaft cam by 90 degrees and try the crankshaft again, and likely it will rotate just fine. The aux. shaft lobe and connecting rod only hit in a very limited set of rotational circumstances. At any rate, sounds like you're OK on this issue.

On the head gasket: The one you got from AutoRicambi looks right, and I've never run into a problem with a head gasket that wouldn't fit over the two locater "dowels" (pins) on the opposite sides of the block, one in front and one in the rear. Sometimes I've had to gently push the metal-reinforced opening of the head gasket over these pins, but they always fit. I'd try calling AutoRicambi and seeing what they have to say.

On cleaning the block (and I see Daddio has also replied while I was typing): If I am doing this with the engine in the car, I just scrape off as much of the old gasket and any other residue with a sharp putty knife or a razor blade scraper, being careful not to gouge any marks in the metal face. I then go over it with a hand sanding block with 240 grit emery paper, and perhaps finish up with 400 or 600 grit. Some people might recommend leaving a bit of a surface roughness in the block face to allow it to "bite into" the gasket better, but I just sand it fairly smooth. Do not use steel wool or cheap sandpaper or the like as this almost always sheds traces of wire or sand that land in your piston rings or coolant passages. Do try to keep as much crap out of the coolant passages as possible, and I usually stuff a rag or the like into the cylinder bores before beginning the cleaning process. After you're done, you can also vacuum out, or blow out if you have an air compressor, any debris that might be left behind.

-Bryan

Thanks. The gasket apparently is not properly fitted for the dowels. He suggested I could drill it out or return it. Im going to drill it. Its really close so just a few light runs should do the trick.

If all goes well and when starts in a few days should I treat it like a new engine? Maybe bring it to operating temp and then turn it off for a day or so? Drive easy for 50 miles or so.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

On drilling out the holes on the gasket, try to take off as little as possible. Sometimes just running a sharp drill bit that already fits into the existing hole, back and forth and all around, is enough to widen up the opening just enough so the dowel can fit.

When you get it back together, I wouldn't flog the engine right away, but neither would I feel the need to baby it. Just drive normally, make sure everything seems to be working, put some more miles on it, recheck the cylinder heat bolt torques, check the spark plugs for unusual appearance, look for white or blue smoke in the exhaust, etc.

By the way, one other suggestion is to clean the threads on your 10 cylinder head bolts, before reinstalling. Perhaps with a soft wire brush, like brass or the like, and make sure that they thread smoothly into all the holes in the block. There are probably some thread lubricants on the market to prevent long-term issues with critical bolts like the cylinder head ones, but I've never used them.

-Bryan

[Daddio]

WD works fine as a remover but you will have to solvent clean it off too before reassembly.
Sounds like you're making fine progress!
Remember to check the head for flatness, especially around the failure points; you'll want to make sure the PO didn't just throw it together to sell it off.

[maluminse]

On drilling out the holes on the gasket, try to take off as little as possible. Sometimes just running a sharp drill bit that already fits into the existing hole, back and forth and all around, is enough to widen up the opening just enough so the dowel can fit.

When you get it back together, I wouldn't flog the engine right away, but neither would I feel the need to baby it. Just drive normally, make sure everything seems to be working, put some more miles on it, recheck the cylinder heat bolt torques, check the spark plugs for unusual appearance, look for white or blue smoke in the exhaust, etc.

By the way, one other suggestion is to clean the threads on your 10 cylinder head bolts, before reinstalling. Perhaps with a soft wire brush, like brass or the like, and make sure that they thread smoothly into all the holes in the block. There are probably some thread lubricants on the market to prevent long-term issues with critical bolts like the cylinder head ones, but I've never used them.

-Bryan

Thanks. I dont know if the drilling is going to work. My drill is charging. I did a bit and used what AR recommended, a 5/16, which was too big and nicked the brass. Once the drillis charged Im going to do what you said and just go round and round to widen the hole. Ill post a pic when the dowel fits. Kinda surprised the HG has this flaw. Im thinking, Am I the first to buy this gasket?

[maluminse]

WD works fine as a remover but you will have to solvent clean it off too before reassembly.
Sounds like you're making fine progress!
Remember to check the head for flatness, especially around the failure points; you'll want to make sure the PO didn't just throw it together to sell it off.

So far so good. Im surprised this hg doesnt fit.

Head looks really flat and very smooth. It appears to be a new engine rebuild. Little things like four point spark plugs and aftermarket cam cogs (blue) make it seem like they spent some money. But the bolts loose...idk maybe the guy didnt own a torque wrench.

It ran really strong before the white smoke. Oh yea. They had a glass fuel filter next to the fuel pump. There was none at the carb. Before I found the glass one I put one in at the carb. So now I have two. The original glass one was clogged. Tank also looks new.

New timing belt comes tomorrow. So if it comes early enough Ill put it together tomorrow. Tempted to spring for the $300 on a Vicks header...