Tragedy has struck. ETA head gasket

[maluminse]

Bought a 76 124 from an old Russian guy. Good price. Car was in pretty good condition.

I could tell the engine was rebuilt as it had different color cam sprockets and the cover wasnt on.

Ran beautifully. Just really purred. Had a fuel issue but it was just a clogged filter. Just as I got that sorted out and I could 'get on it' the temperature starts to climb. This is 700 miles since I bought it. Getting on it was not at all pushing it hard. I got to about 40 mph and did not all abuse the engine. Just took the paces like a careful driver.

I see a bit of smoke chugging out the back.... Which was new.

Now the idle is off.

It didnt overheat. But it rose over the 180 to about 200. I stopped. Had lunch. Temperature low and I drive home.

I check the oil.... whitish. No.No.

When I bought the car I had thought to check the headbolt torque. Never got around to it.

I go to autozone buy a torque wrench and 5 quarts of synthetic 5w 20 and an oil filter. I had plugs already.

Sure enough 1, 2, and 3 or 4 was not 55 pounds. This is good I hope. All the rest are 55. Headbolt 1 and 2 were a good 15 pounds light at least.

Change the oil and the plugs.

Start it.

Starts immediately and purs like I had not heard it pur. Sounded even better. For about 1 minute. Then chug chug chug.

I get out.

White smoke screens. Its worse. Much much worse.

How long to replace a head gasket? Im thinking about 10 hours. Way off?

tia

[aj81spider]

I was going to post that I thought 10 hours was high, based on my experience as a semi-skilled mechanic who replaced his head twice (I told you I was semi-skilled). Then I remembered my Haynes manual has labor estimates. According to Haynes it's about a 6 hour job and the skill level is the second lowest on their 4 level scale.

I think it will be less than 10 hours if nothing goes wrong (like snapping a bolt). If something goes wrong then all bets are off.

[RRoller123]

The biggest threat is getting the cam timing right when you put it back together. Make sure that you understand this and align everything before you take the head off. And use a brand new timing belt.

[MattVAS]

Doing a head gasket is actually very fast.

However you did under torque the head bolts.

The proper head bolt torque is 61.

Also the engine maybe a 4 cylinder but that doesn't mean it run modern 4 cylinder oil. You should really not be thinner than 10w30.

[maluminse]

Awesome. Thanks for the info. I used Haynes for the bolt torque. Two bolts were not even 55. Pretty sure that was the source of the problem. Im surprised it got worse. Maybe it was the 5w 20.

Either way. Maybe next weekend. Oh Yea still have to order the head gaket ha. Guess Ill need intake and exhaust gaskets too...

[maluminse]

The biggest threat is getting the cam timing right when you put it back together. Make sure that you understand this and align everything before you take the head off. And use a brand new timing belt.

Thanks for the schemata It will be invaluable.

[maluminse]

Doing a head gasket is actually very fast.

However you did under torque the head bolts.

The proper head bolt torque is 61.

Also the engine maybe a 4 cylinder but that doesn't mean it run modern 4 cylinder oil. You should really not be thinner than 10w30.

Think using 5w 20 caused it to get worse? Two of the inner bolts were about 40.

I used Haynes for the 55.

So Ill order the head, intake and exhaust gasket.

[maluminse]

I was going to post that I thought 10 hours was high, based on my experience as a semi-skilled mechanic who replaced his head twice (I told you I was semi-skilled). Then I remembered my Haynes manual has labor estimates. According to Haynes it's about a 6 hour job and the skill level is the second lowest on their 4 level scale.

I think it will be less than 10 hours if nothing goes wrong (like snapping a bolt). If something goes wrong then all bets are off.

Thanks. Thats good news. Im going to lube all the bolts I can think of today. Need to order the exhaust, intake and head gasket. Maybe cam cover gaskets too. Its seeping.

[maluminse]

Doing a head gasket is actually very fast.

However you did under torque the head bolts.

The proper head bolt torque is 61.

Also the engine maybe a 4 cylinder but that doesn't mean it run modern 4 cylinder oil. You should really not be thinner than 10w30.

Think tightening them all to 61 could solve the problem? Or once its blowing white smoke its done?

[JohnMc]

Personally I think that you need a new head gasket. But when doing you will want to have the aluminium head checked to see that it is not warped and needs to have the head surface milled. If it is warped and you do not have surface milled than you will blow the head gasket right away (I personally know this issue). You or machine shop can also look at the valves, guides and seats to see if there is something that needs to be done. You are in there so might do it.
Not at all a terrible job I have done them on all of the Fiat's I have owned. As I have gotten older I have someone help me lift the head off and put it on. (I would remove the head manually and not use any lifting aids such as engine hoist just to ensure that you have removed everything). Remember that the metal line from the water pump to heater hose does have attachment point to head at a stud for exhaust manifold.
Get a gasket set. I also got head studs instead of getting new head bolts and really like them.
I do not know anything about the newer head gaskets they have come out with (as they do not fit my 1438 engine) but might be good. Might as well change the antifreeze and also the thermostat.
Get new timing belt kit - includes the bearing.
I live in hot area (Sacramento, CA) and use 20-50 weight oil.

Even though you are not there yet the transmission uses 90 wt GL-1. I get it from Tractor Supply in a gallon container that says Traveller All Mineral SAE 90 for Ford Tractor Transmission Fluid. The rear axle uses I believe GL-5 grade oil.

[MattVAS]

Doing a head gasket is actually very fast.

However you did under torque the head bolts.

The proper head bolt torque is 61.

Also the engine maybe a 4 cylinder but that doesn't mean it run modern 4 cylinder oil. You should really not be thinner than 10w30.

Think tightening them all to 61 could solve the problem? Or once its blowing white smoke its done?

It's not worth the risk of any additional damage. I would just do the gasket and set the torque correctly to 61.
And potentially the low weight oil made matter worse. Depending on climate 10w30 is good or 15w40. And in much warmer climates you can even run 20w50. But I'd never recommend 5w20.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

At a minimum, the cylinder head needs to come off and be checked by a good machine shop as noted by others above. If you're lucky, a bad head gasket is the only problem, but I'd also worry about the rest of the engine given that you don't know much about its past history, and the water in the oil (the white-ish oil). There could be an issue with the engine block, the bearings could have issues if they have been run too long with water in the oil, and who knows what else while the car was in the care of the previous owner.

If it were me, and I planned on keeping the car for a while, I'd pull the whole engine and carefully go over it. I hope that I'm not coming across as the "bearer of bad news", but I have some concerns about the health of this engine. But, try machining the head clean and flat, new gaskets, the correct head bolt torque, and give it a try. Good luck!

-Bryan

[maluminse]

At a minimum, the cylinder head needs to come off and be checked by a good machine shop as noted by others above. If you're lucky, a bad head gasket is the only problem, but I'd also worry about the rest of the engine given that you don't know much about its past history, and the water in the oil (the white-ish oil). There could be an issue with the engine block, the bearings could have issues if they have been run too long with water in the oil, and who knows what else while the car was in the care of the previous owner.

If it were me, and I planned on keeping the car for a while, I'd pull the whole engine and carefully go over it. I hope that I'm not coming across as the "bearer of bad news", but I have some concerns about the health of this engine. But, try machining the head clean and flat, new gaskets, the correct head bolt torque, and give it a try. Good luck!

-Bryan

Couple of questions. Everything is off except the intake manifold. The two center manifold bolts are a B to get to. I could just take the head off with the intake manifold attached. Bad idea?

Put the head gasket on dry? Or use one of those sealants they sell? Brown gasket etc etc

I forgot the other question..

Edit:

I poured oil directly on the cams to flush out some of the tainted oil. It didnt drain...

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I don't think you'll have any issues pulling the head off with the intake manifold still attached, assuming all hoses, wires, and other plumbing have been disconnected. In fact, that's usually the way I pull off the cylinder head: with both the exhaust manifold and intake manifold attached. It's only about 20 pounds or so of extra weight, it gives you something to grab hold of, and it's much easier to remove the manifolds after the cylinder head is removed. Same with putting it back together: I assemble both the exhaust and intake manifolds onto the cylinder head before carefully lowering the head onto the block.

Others can weigh in on this, but I have always put the cylinder head gasket on "dry", that is, without any sealants, although I can imagine that some gasket manufacturers might recommend a sealant. I do have the cylinder head face lightly machined before reinstalling, and if the block was not removed for machine work, I lightly go over the face of it with emery paper or the like to remove any traces of the old gasket. I also check with a straight-edge (steel ruler or the like) and a feeler gauge to make sure that the face of the block appears flat and not warped.

-Bryan

[maluminse]

I don't think you'll have any issues pulling the head off with the intake manifold still attached, assuming all hoses, wires, and other plumbing have been disconnected. In fact, that's usually the way I pull off the cylinder head: with both the exhaust manifold and intake manifold attached. It's only about 20 pounds or so of extra weight, it gives you something to grab hold of, and it's much easier to remove the manifolds after the cylinder head is removed. Same with putting it back together: I assemble both the exhaust and intake manifolds onto the cylinder head before carefully lowering the head onto the block.

Others can weigh in on this, but I have always put the cylinder head gasket on "dry", that is, without any sealants, although I can imagine that some gasket manufacturers might recommend a sealant. I do have the cylinder head face lightly machined before reinstalling, and if the block was not removed for machine work, I lightly go over the face of it with emery paper or the like to remove any traces of the old gasket. I also check with a straight-edge (steel ruler or the like) and a feeler gauge to make sure that the face of the block appears flat and not warped.

-Bryan

Awesome. Thanks.

Side question. Does the hood open all the way? I mean like all the way to where you can 'lay it on the ground'. Its windy here. I was thinking of putting some towels down and laying the hood, attached, on the ground. I dont know it opens that far. Looks like it might but I dont want to bend the hood or a grill or anything.