Machine Shop

[garygnj]

Hi all,
Wondering if I could get some recommendations for a very good machine shop for cylinder boring, crank balancing, etc. I’m in New Jersey, and the folks around here that I’ve contacted don’t have the proper deck jigs for boring a fiat 1800. Willing to ship anywhere for a machinist who has experience with Fiat!

Thanks,
Gary

[baltobernie]

I'm not familiar with "deck jigs". The local shop that did my motor never machined a Fiat twin-cam motor before or since. Perhaps the shops you've talked with simply don't want your business. You could always send your motor to a vintage Fiat specialist like Midwest Bayless.

I'm assuming, of course, that you've already done a cost/benefit analysis of rebuilding your motor ... condition of the rest of the car, long-term ownership plans, etc. I spent thou$and$ on my 1800 engine, and if I had to do it all over again, I would have installed a known-good EFI 2-liter.

I'll offer two other pieces of free advice: Make sure your chosen shop does not "hot tank" the block; only solvents can be used. Otherwise, the balance shaft bearings will be ruined. This shaft rarely needs to be removed and most guys leave it be. Secondly, your chances of success with a rebuild go up greatly if you have the machine shop do the disassembly (of the short block), cleaning, measuring, parts ordering, and re-assembly of the rotating parts. Even the most generic Fiat manuals have all the clearance and torque specs your shop will need.

[garygnj]

Thanks,
Deck jigs probably is the wrong terminology.. basically a hunk of aluminum that is torqued to spec simulating the head being mounted. While boring, this insures all stresses and albeit slight distortions caused by the head bolts tightened to spec are already in place.
I think you’re right about the local shops not wanting my business.... kind of funny actually, I got the cash, and nobody wants it! Lol anyway that’s what prompted me to reach out here and see if anyone knows of a machine shop ideally in jersey, but if not elsewhere. As you mentioned, there are some unique characteristics to our fiats, and again, ideally, I would prefer using a shop that is aware of those, and might have a little love of these engines that kind of goes into the mix.

[isleroman]

Thanks,
Deck jigs probably is the wrong terminology.. basically a hunk of aluminum that is torqued to spec simulating the head being mounted. While boring, this insures all stresses and albeit slight distortions caused by the head bolts tightened to spec are already in place.
I think you’re right about the local shops not wanting my business.... kind of funny actually, I got the cash, and nobody wants it! Lol anyway that’s what prompted me to reach out here and see if anyone knows of a machine shop ideally in jersey, but if not elsewhere. As you mentioned, there are some unique characteristics to our fiats, and again, ideally, I would prefer using a shop that is aware of those, and might have a little love of these engines that kind of goes into the mix.

The item you are referring to is commonly called a Deck Plate or Torque Plate. Finding a machine shop with one for a Fiat/Lancia TC might be tough.

[baltobernie]

For what it's worth, YMMV. From a machine shop website:

You guys can take this post how you want, each is entitled to his own opinion and findings.

I built 150 engines last year, nearly that number the year before, and at least 100 per year the previous two years before that and I've been putting Subaru engines together since 2002. Not once did my machinst use a torque plate. How many have posted up that their Axis engine failed due to me not using a torque plate? I can't think of any, or if there was something I never heard about it and I usually get some sort of pm or notice when something is wrong. The proof is in the results.

The way it was explained to me is this:

The torque plate can not be just a plate of metal that is torqued down in place of the head. The metal should be the same thickness, same type, and as closely identical to the head as possible to be able to accurately say the torque plate is doing it's part. You must use the exact same head gasket type you plan on using when you put the engine together to get the most accurate results. Otherwise you are wasting your time and money.

Here's a nice little project for you guys. Get yourself a brand new Subaru block. Take it apart and measure everything and see what you come up with. The results might surprise you. The stock cylinders being out of round is only the tip of the iceberg.

The Fiat TC is a cast-iron, closed-deck engine block. It would be interesting to hear from Spider enthusiasts who have built more than one or two motors. I suppose Guy Croft would be the person to ask about this.

[garygnj]

Isleroman, thanks for the clarification. Yeah, I think you’re right, it’s going to be tough to find a shop that has one..
Baltobernie, just my 2 cents...
No doubt whatsoever that the engine would run. It’s actually pretty easy to build up an engine and have it perform reasonably well, but then there are those engines that just “purr”. I think Guy Croft would say that details matter, and of course there is a diminishing return also. My experience is that when you pay attention to as many of the smaller details (within reason) as possible, in the end, you gain a big win.
For me, having the block bored the most proper way possible, is what I’d like to have happen, but, yeah, it just might not be possible.
As far as the machine shop posting... it’s probably a smart business decision for someone just cranking out engine work, kind of like the new subaru engine block, mass production, not perfection. A perfectly legit business model, I’m just hoping to find the shop that is more detail oriented, and less focused on just moving product.

[Nanonevol]

You might ask Danny at Fun Imported in Connecticut. Not far from Jersey.
http://www.funimported.com/

[AndyVAS]

To quickly clear up a point on block work, a closed deck cast iron block does NOT need a torque plate.

As for cleaning... auxiliary shaft bushings are cheap so let them use whatever solvent they have and get it as clean as possible.