Not running

[manladypig]

As the title says my 1976 fiat 124 I bought a couple of months ago that is kind of a project is no longer running, It ran about a month ago, and then it started acting up and running a little weird, a couple of busy weeks go by and I come back to it. Then I could only get it to start by holding my hand over the carb and It would only run for about 5 seconds then sputter and die. I got new spark plug wires, spark plugs, and distributor rotor and since then I can't get it to start at all. I still have spark and fuel so where should I go from here?

[Nanonevol]

How did you determine that you have fuel? Is fuel pump operational? What carb is it and what is it's condition?

[manladypig]

yes I do have fuel as I said, I don't know what carb it is, fairly sure its the stock carb and it is in pretty good condition. I can see the fuel spraying strongly in the barrel. Also as I said it ran about two weeks ago sporadically, but it would only run for about 5 seconds and then it would die, what do you think would cause that? my fuel pump does work, its quite loud and probably not the best, but it works.

[kilrwail]

Have you checked the points gap and timing? Is the idle mixture screw turned about 1-3/4 to 2 full turns out from the bottom?

[manladypig]

what should my gap be set to?

[kilrwail]

Points about 0.017". Plugs about 0.029".

[manladypig]

Okay today I got around it. I've gapped my spark plugs as you said, but I do not know how to set points or what they are

[kilrwail]

The easiest way for me to help you learn about points is to suggest you find a friend who can show you - it's a lot to explain, but I'll try. It's too late for me to take new pictures to illustrate this process.

In the following picture, the distributor is the brown item with the numbers 1 to 4 superimposed on it.

Remove the distributor cap with the two screws. The brown pointer device is called the rotor. When the engine is running the rotor turns clockwise. It rides on a squarish piece in the centre - a square shaft with rounded corners. As the rotor turns there are two silver metal pieces that make contact with each other and then break contact when the rounded corner pushes one silver piece away from the other. The "points gap" is defined as the distance between the two silver pieces when they are at the maximum separation.

To adjust the points gap you must loosen the two screws that retain the movable silver piece, just enough so that you can move its mounting position a little. Make sure the transmission is in neutral and the parking brake is on. Using the ignition key, turn the engine over by moving the key to the Start position for a fraction of a second. Check the points to see if the tab on the movable piece is centred on a rounded corner. If it's not, click the key briefly again. Learn how to turn the key such a tiny amount that the rotor barely moves. Keep doing this until the tab on the movable silver piece is exactly at the centre of one of the rounded corners. Now use a feeler gauge of 0.016" to 0.018" to measure the gap between the two silver pieces and adjust and tighten the retaining screws to maintain that gap. Remove the feeler gauge and turn the engine over a couple of revolutions to observe that the gap remains where you want it every time that it opens. Once you're satisfied, replace the distributor cap and start the engine. If the gap is correct and the plugs are correct, it should run - unless the timing is off and/or the carburetor needs adjustment. Those may be topics for another day.

[manladypig]

So I did know about the rotor and such, I recently replaced the rotor when I did the spark plugs, but yes I am still a rookie when it comes to distributors. So from what I can tell from your description are these the points here?

[kilrwail]

Yes, those are the points. And you still have two sets, one of which you can do without. If you keep them both, obviously they both have to be gapped correctly. The screw at the bottom of your picture is one of two that must be loosened a half turn in order to adjust the gap. Make sure that the green wires are not pinched anywhere - if they are you'll get a short to ground and it won't run properly. The cylinder at the bottom right of your picture is called a condenser and yours looks very old. There should be two since you have dual points. It would be a good idea to replace them both, because they could interfere with proper operation. If you don't own a timing light it's time to buy one (like at NAPA), because you'll need that to set the timing. And you still have to check the setting of the carburetor's idle mixture screw. Good luck!

[manladypig]

Thanks so much, I actually went out and bought a timing light yesterday and when I get home from work today I'll get to it. Thank again

[kilrwail]

Good for you! Keep at it - we'll get you there. I'm leaving for Florida on New Years Day but will check in after I get there on Thursday to see how you're making out.

[Funcar]

I went through this whole process with my 73 Spider just as you are doing. It is very educational to an amatuer hobbyist like me while still very frustrating. I had finally purchased all the parts to put in an electronic system. However decided I needed to first get my car running again with the original setup to diagnose the problem. Short story is it turned out to be the condenser. I couldn't believe that this small $10.00 replacement part was culprit!.

I have driven my Spider since with the original setup with no problem and know how to clean and setup the points, adjust the distributor, adjust my cam wheel and complete the timing. I will probably put the new electronic ignition system in when the point are shot!

[manladypig]

okay Well I went on a long vacation but I ordered new condensers before I left. I got back a couple of days ago and now I've set my points, and installed the new condensers, and my engine still wont even gurgle! just cranking to no avail. I still havent checked the idle mixture screw, quick question is this screw at the bottom there the idle mixture screw, or is it the other one up and to the right that you cannot see in this picuture?

Image was automatically rotated 90 degrees to the left for some reason

[manladypig]

woo hoo nevermind, I decided to go back and try it with some starting fluid and it started! It still dies after about 10 seconds so I'm now I'm thinking it IS the idle mixture sooo, I just need to know which screw that is then I will get to it!