Hardtop convertible as daily driver - in Cleveland OH

[stuartrubin]

This is definitely off topic, but I know a lot of the folks in this group have pretty good insight into car stuff in general.

I'm thinking of trading in my much loved 2005 Acura TSX (which I stand by as being the best car ever made!) for a hardtop convertible to use as my daily driver. I MIGHT even consider a traditional soft top...

I don't put a lot of commuter miles on the car, and practically none are highway miles. (We typically take my wife's car for trips.)

It gets pretty cold here, and we get a good bit of snow. Are there issues with the cold? Is it really like having a "real" top when it's up?

Wind noise?

Safety?

Would it be crazy to use a soft-top as a daily driver in Cleveland, OH?

What are the other down sides?

All thoughts welcome!

[JohnMc]

In 1974 I drove my 1969 Fiat 124 with the top up from San Diego (college) to San Francisco area (home) at Thanksgiving. Went down I-5 at night and was down to perhaps the 20's. My fan switch broke so just heat without fan. I had gloves, jacket and wool hat on during the drive and remember being darned cold. I would guess that hardtop would really help.
IMHO the tops are for rain (which they really excel at) and for swarms of bees (but that is a different story).

[JohnMc]

What could also help is a different design of fan - how can a modern squirrel cage fan be installed in place for that inefficient original fan?

[chrisg]

do you mean a hardtop for your 124 Spider?

I find the heat to be pretty good even with no fan. In fact, my '73 has a heater core, but no fan by purpose. That said, I'm usually opting for a beater car when it's consistent 20s & below temperatures. That said, here are a few thoughts:

a 124 Coupe center console has round vents aimed at passengers. I used to see/hear of a few 124 Spiders fit with Coupe upper consoles for the purpose of improving HVAC. These days, anything "Coupe" may be more expensive so that may not be an awesome option.

I think a properly installed soft top in good condition wouldn't be much better in terms of draft/seal in function (technically, yes, in practice I think not so much), BUT i'm sure the sub-freezing temps with movement has got to be hell on the soft top. A hard top ought to be quieter, but I'd also say that a Fiat ought not be quiet, so there are diminishing returns there.

Biggest thing I'd think would be a hassle would be having to weld in new metal for the lower 1/4 of the car every few years with all the brine treatment of the roads.

[stuartrubin]

Sorry, but I was not clear: I was actually thinking of a NEW car (imagine that...) with a hard-top convertible!

I don't think I've even turned on the heater of my Spider! I would not last a minute in the Cleveland snow...

[Jimb]

I can't think of a reason why you wouldn't.
My wife and I have both driven convertibles from a '69 beetle to new BMW's and love the option to put the top down in nice weather.
However, there is a difference between a folding hardtop and removable hard top. Folding, yes, removable is a pain to store both short term and long term (seasonal).
Jim

[aj81spider]

I know someone who has a Infiniti G35 hardtop convertible. With the top up it is like driving a regular sedan. The top goes down at the push of a button and you get a convertible (at the expense of losing a lot of the trunk).

I can't speak for all hard top convertibles, but my limited experience has made me quite a fan.

[PhillySpider]

I properly working spider heater will cook you in 20 degree temps, with a soft top, no problem!

[chrisg]

I concur, the heater in a properly functioning 124 is great. It's all the stuff they put in the roads to melt ice that I would think twice about. A sacrificial new car seems appropriate. $40K beater to preserve a $10K 124? Makes sense to me!!!

[aj81spider]

If I could get $10K for mine it would be gone tomorrow (I'd probably get another to replace it after I forgot the angst of owning a car that runs about half the time).

What's really important is the methodology you use to value it. It might be worth $6,000 if you sell it - that's one model, although a depressing one. Alternatively it might be worth $25,000 because that's the cash you spent restoring it - that's another model. The model I like is if I value my time at say $30/hour. Then it's worth about $75,000-$100,000. Suddenly that $40,000 beater looks pretty smart.

Rationalizations are key to your mental health!

[chrisg]

ha! those are good ones. I look at the 124s as having a value that remains the same & slowly increases. Then I put a net zero value on my time spent because the work/restore/rescue is something that I enjoy as much as driving/owning, so if anything I figure the enjoyment & educational value derived outweighs the financial investment in parts & consumables. And then most modern cars (actually I currently am enjoying a 1995 F150 as my most modern car, so it doesn't fit this model) simply lose value & do so rather swiftly as you own them. So, well, the mathematical model there can get murky but basically I wasn't kidding that it makes good sense to me to preserve the far less "valued" 124 while sacrificing the modern car which will not lose value much more precipitously by being driven on salty roads, parked outside, etc.

[Slartibartfaster]

Modern hard-top convertibles provide a true hard-top experience but with serious compromises:
- Smaller interior and trunk space
- Heavier - thus poorer handling
- Less rigid - thus poorer handling
- Usually awkward proportions
- More expensive
- More difficult to sell - smaller market

The huge advantage of being able to drop the top is great...if you don't also have a 124 Spider in the garage. If you do, then you may be less likely to drive the spider, which would be a crying shame.

I take a fleet mentality to my cars...each should be great at its primary mission with as few compromises as possible. And the primary strengths of any vehicle should directly match the primary weaknesses of a fleet-mate.
Thus, the current Slartibartfaster fleet:
- One six pass SUV (dead reliable, safe, can carry the grandparents or lumber as needed), cheap to buy, insure, operate.
- One fancy-pants electric sedan (primary driver, full tank every morning, essentially no maintenance, safest vehicle on the road, crazy-fast)
- One 5-star safety rated japanese sedan (two teenagers)
- One super low mile, original Spider that the wife loves to ride in (date night)
- One totally non-original Spider built for street performance that the wife secretly does not like (my toy)

[Jimb]

- Smaller interior and trunk space.....True.
- Heavier - thus poorer handling......while I agree, unless its a track car you won't really notice the difference.
- Less rigid - thus poorer handling....see note above.
- Usually awkward proportions....This depends on the model you chose. In some cases the style is better.
- More expensive.....True
- More difficult to sell - smaller market.....This depends on where you live. For example, in my neck of the woods convertibles hold their value better than tin-tops.

Just my opinions of course
Jim

[stuartrubin]

Slartibartfaster, I like the "fleet mentality". I've still got a few years to worry about my teen drivers (my older is 13), so that's not quite a consideration yet. And we have one big and nice SUV that my wife uses. So, I can definitely stand limited trunk space, but I need to occasionally put smallish/medium people in the back.

I wish I had the budget for one ideal car for each use case! I've got to deal with all-wheel-drive for the winter, four seats, don't care about trunk space, don't care too much about efficiency (not that I don't care about fossil fuels, it's just that my commute is very short), and I would like to drop the top on days where the weather is nice. (We have crummy winters, but our summers are perfect!)

There just aren't too many hard-top convertibles. I like the BMW 4xx, but it's a little pricey for me, especially in the AWD. The other hard-tops convertibles seem to be 2-seaters, and/or crazy expensive (Porsche 911), or just bla like the VW Eos.

I'm in no rush, so I'll just wait to see what comes out in the next year or so.