DOA

[spate75fiat124]

You may have a blockage in the water choke. Can always replace with an electrical choke and bypass any water heat issues. If fuel doesn't flow when hot starting, I would check to see if the float wasn't getting stuck in the closed position. No fuel in the bowl, normal or choked operations not possible. Some older aircraft have a similar problem with fuel boiling in the lines before the carb due to heat collecting after a shut down and a restart attempt 1/2 - 1 hour later.

Just my 2 cents

[Sscottdvm]

I've checked the choke and it seems to operate as it should. It is fully open when the car is warm. I agree, I think the fuel boils off when the car sits in the sun after running. It never happens at night or on a cool day. It hasn't happened since I've installed the new fuel pump and I just got the fan running. I'll see what happens on the next hot day.

[seabeelt]

A related question - Do you have all of your emissions equipment in place or has it been removed? Reason I ask, is one should not get vapor lock from the tank if " you have a good supply and return line from the carb AND you have a good vent line to the gas tank (probably from the charcoal canister)

Sometimes folks remove all of this equipment and either plug the vapor line from the tank and or it gets plugged by some type of debris ( can happen with the system still in tact) ergo causing vapor lock . Plenty of diagrams here and on the web in general for a 78 and you can compare to what you have.

In relation to the dual point relay, You will need to unscrew the panel under the glove box to get to the relay(s) You can check the voltage to see which points are running at the relay socket Should be the second relay on the panel on the left hand side of the panel going from the passenger compartment Green wire goes to one set of points and the green wire with the black stripe goes to the other set of points

[Sscottdvm]

Funny you should ask about the emissions. The air pump is still there but not attached to any belts. The hoses are hooked into some manifold on top of the engine. The charcoal canister is still there, it has a braided hose on top that seems to hook into somewhere under the carb. At the bottom of the canister the hose is just hanging, I can't see anywhere to attach it. It was sitting behind the radiator but can't find any connection there either. Looked at the shop manual and can't see any info on where to connect.
Btw, since I've installed the new fuel pump it has started every time. Unfortunately, it hasn't been above 80 degrees so don't really believe it's been fixed

[njoconnor]

Scott: Just read through the whole thread, and what you describe sounds like my hot start issue back when I first put my 72 back on the road in 14. Drive for a while, park it (in the sun), and no start. Wait for it to cool off, and it started (or...roll start it out of the Home Depot parking lot with help!). Did the electrical chasing like you, to no avail. Lived with it for a year, but spouse insisted I get it fixed before she'd ride farther than the local grocery store....

I had also posted about the problem, and Mark Allison asked about a phenolic spacer in a reply; seems the spacers were added to insulate the carb from engine heat soak. Looked under my carb...no spacer, just carb, gasket, manifold. Ordered a spacer and new gaskets. When I started to install the spacer/gaskets, I found that the PO's mechanic had never bolted the carb down completely; it "rocked" about 1/8 back and forth. Bought new (longer) studs to accommodate the spacer thickness, reinstalled the carb with the spacer, and.....no hot start issues at all in three driving seasons. Whether it was the loose carb or the spacer, I'll never know. But I'd suggest checking 1) is the carb bolted to spec, and 2) is there a spacer.

Good luck; these cars are a joy when running. If you lived with an MG for years, none of this is above your pay grade!

Neil

[Sscottdvm]

Thanks Neil

I'll take a look tomorrow when I get out to my house. There seems to be various thicknesses available. Which did you install? I guess I'd also need to find some longer bolts.
Although the engine certainly seems to retain heat for a long time, it never seems to get above 180 while running.
Was wondering if that plate that covers the bottom of the engine should be removed to let it dissipate some heat. Even after sitting a coulple of hours the engine still feels hot

[njoconnor]

Scott: my spacer was 14 mm, and I needed to use 50mm studs to mount the carb and spacer. Not sure there are other thicknesses; check the vendors. Got a look at two 79 carbed cars this week; both had the spacers.

The carb and spacer just fit under my flat hood car. Bump hoods shoild see no issues.

Neil

[Sscottdvm]

There's a spacer that can't be more than 3 mm. I assume that it's original. I assume the larger spacers were installed to either fix a problem or improve performance. The good thing is that the car has started two days in a row in mid 80 's weather. Still not sure if the problem has been solved but don't think I
I'll change the spacer until it fails to start.
New issue today. First time I've had a chance to hit 70 mph and started to miss and backfire a bit. Was fine back at 60. Maybe just need to find a long stretch of highway and blow out the engine a bit .

[nelsonj]

Good to hear its hasn't failed to start. The backfiring sounds like timing. Have you taken of the dizzy cap and looked at the condition of the springs/weights? Should have two spring that don't look "stretched". Also, have you checked the condition of your spark plugs? New plugs and wires always seems to add "zip" to the car. Finally, I know you put in a new coil, but it is possible the ignition model can keep up at high RPMs. Replacing it is easy and cheap - you can keep the old module as a backup spare.

I still vote for putting in an electronic ignition, esp if you have an original dual points set up.

Again, glad to hear the fuel pump and coil are doing well.

Peace.
Out.

[Sscottdvm]

Tried to duplicate problem today. Can hit 5000 rpm in third without misfiring. 3800 in 5 th gear and 4000 rpm in 4 th gear causes it to start sputtering. The plugs look good as does everything inside the dizzy. Was going to just replace the points but someone I spoke to at Vicks says they need to be gapped and might not be able to do it properly. I could get a timing light but if the timing was off wouldn't it also riun poorly at low Rpms? Bottom line, very few places where I drive that I need to go 70 and I'm not going on any long distant trips with this car.

[RRoller123]

Has it not been timed with a light? That is an important thing to get done.

[Sscottdvm]

No, I ordered one on Amazon today. I guess I'll have to watch some you tube video to learn how to use it.

[Sscottdvm]

Tried the timing light this am. If I doing it properly, which is unlikely, there seems to be a small dot on the pulley that is about an inch above the 10degree line. So, tried to get to that nut on the dizzy. Used a 17 mm, 16 prob better but seemed to have misplaced it, it won't budge, used wd40 and some nut de ruster and won't budge. Any ideas on the best way to loosen it?

[nelsonj]

Make sure you have the right size wrench. Us the box end if possible. You have already soaked it in WD40(my trick) so your options are 1) heat, 2) torque. Try to use a large wrench or put a pipe over the wrench to create a longer lever arm. It just holds a clamp so the bolt shouldn't have crazy torque on it, so it should break with just a bit of leverage. In either case, make sure you have the correct size wrench or your likely to ruin the bolt head and then it gets difficult...

Make sure your car is fully warmed up before doing the timing. Let the fan cycle several times. If you are well above 10 deg after that at idol, it might explain why you can't start some times - that is way too advanced. I set my on 10 and try not to go above it.

You're almost there...

[Sscottdvm]

It does help to have the correct tools. Drove to a mechanic that used to work on my MG. He had a 90 degree crescent that loosened the bolt in a second. Gotta get myself a set of those.

Unfortunately things didn't work out well. If I'm doing things properly when I rotate the dizzy clockwise it retards the timing and slows the idle. First set it at 10. Ran worse and misfires at 3800 vs 4800 in 3 rd gear . At 0 degrees barely got out of the drive way. So, started going the other way. Advanced it past the original setting which was about 1.5 inches above the 10 degree mark. Made it 2 inches and misfired at 5400 rpm and seemed to have a bit more power. When I advanced it another inch it went back to misfiring at 4800. So decided to leave it a bit more advanced than I originally had it. I rarely rev the engine to 5200. Unfortunately. I'm not near anywhere to see what happens in 5 th gear above 4500.

Tonight I'll try taking a look in the dark and see if any of the leads or plugs are sparking.