"Diesel" oil

[njoconnor]

Thanks, Pete! Still think I'm going to toss a couple of ounces of ZDDP into the mix next oil change, though.....

Neil

(PS: probably just bought the last two CJ gallons in Madison, WI!)

[RRoller123]

They didn't specifically say that they have substituted environmentally damaging zinc with other more benign anti-wear additives, but that seems a reasonable conclusion.

[SP3]

They didn't specifically say that they have substituted environmentally damaging zinc with other more benign anti-wear additives, but that seems a reasonable conclusion.

more likely they've only reduced the amount. but, it will still have more than the average gasoline engine oil.

[RRoller123]

Could be. Someone should ask then that direct question. And I wonder.... has the PPM level of Zinc that we need for cam protection been generally established?

[kilrwail]

I see that I'm quoted in here based on a conversation at FFO, so I'll chime in. LN Engineering, which is a Porsche specialist manufacturer, wrote a paper a few years ago on this topic. From memory, the recommended levels of both zinc and phosphorus required to protect flat tappet engines was 1200 ppm. I use Brad Penn 20W-50 in both my Fiat and Porsche and have for close to ten years, based on the recommendation of my engine builder and the LN paper. It's the former Kendall GT green oil and is popular around here with NA hot rodders as well. No additives are required and it's convenient to use the same oil in both cars.

[RRoller123]

http://rotella.shell.com/products/pc-11.html

Here is their web site data on the CJ-4 to CK-4 change; I will write again and ask them directly what the Zinc level change is, and have they added replacement anti-wear additives to account for the lower Zinc. (?)

Let's go with your 1200 ppm Zinc spec for the time being in this discussion. Good stuff.

[RRoller123]

I just sent them this inquiry, we will see what they say:


"I would like a little more clarification on the change from CJ-4 to CK-4 15W-40 Diesel oil. We use it in our Fiat 2L OHC/V flat tappet older engines for its Zinc content, to reduce Cam lobe wear. I understand that the Zinc content has been reduced. What is the new PPM of Zinc in the CK-4 formulation? Have new anti-wear additives been added, or existing ones increased (that are more environmentally friendly), to make up for the decrease in the old Zinc content? Thank you!"

(Again, this is to the Shell Rotella Business Group. The best way to get a quick response from them seems to be via FB. Each group has its own customer service contact organization, and I think a separate FB page as well.)

[RRoller123]

Here is the response I just received from the Shell Rotella Business group regarding my question (below, earlier post). As far as I am concerned, the case is entirely closed and the Shell people are acquitted.

"Hi Peter, the zinc levels in the new formulation have not changed - they are still around 1200ppm."

Pete

[kilrwail]

The LN Engineering paper I referenced above is (in my opinion) the definitive piece on the subject. It includes a ton of theory and a table listing all of the relevant oils of the day (2007) and their respective levels of zinc and phosphorus. It's a worthwhile read to understand the subject. If anyone is interested in seeing it, PM me your email address and I'll send it to you. I have looked online and can't find it.

[RRoller123]

They may be lying, sure wouldn't be the first time a corporate entity did that but I am not concerned, and will continue to use 4 quarts of the 15W-40 Rotella, and then top it up with 15W-50 Mobil 1. It seems to like it. I overfill it very slightly, and it seems to like that too; Maybe ~ just about an extra cup.

[kilrwail]

The 15w40 Rotella scored very high in both Zn and P in 2007 - should be more than good enough if they haven't diluted it as they say.

[FiatMac]

Found these test results by the Petroleum Quality Institute of America.

Test results Rotella T4 CJ4 spec oil purchased 8/10/2016
http://pqiadata.org/ShellRotellaT15W40.html

Test results for Rotella T4 CK4 spec oil purchased 3/30/2017
http://pqiadata.org/Shell_Rotella_T4_15W40_4192017.html

Essentially the same levels of Phosphorus and Zinc in each

[RRoller123]

Apparently the whole thing is a kerfuffle, as we say. On to something else.

[dom]

Great work thanks