Hard starting fuel injected spider

[beachspider]

So I bought this '81 Spider a little less than a month ago and I am noticing it seems to be taking more engine cranking to get it started. Today I had to resort to giving it gas to get it started. I have Brad's book and am thinking of following his steps to diagnose the problem (assuming its related to fuel injection system) but had a couple of questions off the bat. I note that he says that the fuel pump is activated by a switch insider the air flow meter and that when false air is entering the system this is sometimes bypassed by direct-wiring the fuel pump to the ignition. I do hear the fuel pump whenever I turn the key to the on position. Does this mean that it has been bypassed or is it normal? Also, when cold the car idles very low and when warm it idles a bit fast (1000 rpm). I'd appreciate any thoughts before I go head first into the long step by step diagnosis. Thanks.

[So Cal Mark]

the pump shouldn't run with the key on, engine off. It could be that someone has adjusted the AFM rather than bypassed the dual relay. If you remove the black plastic cover on the AFM, you can see if the contacts for the fuel pump are closed or open.
If the auxillary air regulator is working the cold idle should be higher than the warm idle

[klweimer]

beachspider,
As Mark says, the fuel pump should not be running with the key turn alone. There could be a variety of things causing the hard start problem. I would be suspicious of the cold start injector and the thermo-time switch right off the top. Shoot me a PM with your email and I'll send you my grainy scan of the factory FI troubleshooting guide. Invaluable when trying to sort these things out.
Kirk

[PhillySpider]

Going through this myself, I'd say step one is remove the intake hose from the AFM and see if the flap is sticking/rubbing at all. Mine was getting stuck half way. I believe the vibration of the engine trying to crank would break it loose and allow it to start...hence sometimes starting with less cranking than others. Some light sanding inside the AFM and an hour on the couch manually opening and closing the flap got it moving freely. While I had it out I also took the time to remove the cover, clean the resistor track and relocate (bend) the wiper arm to a fresh spot on the resistor strip. Good luck!

In addition to above I also found the connector on my CSV was missing the clip wire and had a broken tab creating a loose connection. Again, cranking and vibrating the engine meant variable times for cold starting. Sometimes it wouldn't kick over after multiple attempts, sometimes it kicked right over in the cold. Made for a fun winter diagnosing and fixing all these issues.

[beachspider]

Thanks for all the good pointers. I did take out the auxiliary air regulator and it was 99% closed when cold. Just open a slit. So I'm guessing this is the culprit. As Brad suggests in his book, I tried boiling it to see if it that would help unstick it. So far no luck with that. It did close fully when hot but just back to the "slit" when cold. As for the incorrectly running fuel pump, I looked at the black plastic cover on the AFM and I'm not sure how to remove that. Is it supposed to just snap off? It looks like there's some kind of sealant along the edges.

[beachspider]

After boiling the AAR a couple of times and inserting and removing a screwdriver repeatedly to try and make sure the valve wasn't sticking, it was open a little more when cold. Still not even a quarter the way open but perhaps this is normal??? I hooked it all back up and it started much easier and idled at 1000 within a couple of seconds.

[PhillySpider]

Thanks for all the good pointers. I did take out the auxiliary air regulator and it was 99% closed when cold. Just open a slit. So I'm guessing this is the culprit. As Brad suggests in his book, I tried boiling it to see if it that would help unstick it. So far no luck with that. It did close fully when hot but just back to the "slit" when cold. As for the incorrectly running fuel pump, I looked at the black plastic cover on the AFM and I'm not sure how to remove that. Is it supposed to just snap off? It looks like there's some kind of sealant along the edges.

It is quite sealed, not meant for us to be working on. That said, carefully (for your own safety, you won't damage anything inside) slide a razor knife along the edges to break the seal. I went around with some pressure, then more and so on, trying periodically to lift an edge. Once you get an edge up slip in a flat head and start twisting to break the seal and keep moving around. Took me about 5 minutes to get it opened up. Good luck!

[klweimer]

You can also hose down the interior of the AAV with carb cleaner to loosen it up. Search for threads here on how to clean and adjust.
Kirk

[micbrody]

I cleaned with carb cleaner; I then followed with dilute dish soap.

After its dry, stick in freezer. If still just a tiny opening, the mechanism can be adjusted by loosening the tiny nut on AAV; stick small screw driver to press open the valve opening; and then tighten the little nut again

[beachspider]

I don't know why I didn't think of simply putting it in the freezer. After my two boils I did soak in in ice water. At that point it was maybe 10-15 percent open. Will try the carb cleaner next and then adjusting it. Should it be adjusted to being fully open when taken out of the freezer?

[micbrody]

I just adjusted it a room temperature

[BryanHubbard]

So to clarify, the flap should be fully open when cold? Mine is about 10% open when cold. My car will not idle properly when first starting. I have to feather the gas pedal to keep it from dying. Is this my issue?

[micbrody]

For the record: I still have intermittent hot start problems.
But first thing to do is to adjust idle after engine fully warm (two radiator fan cycles )- roughly 850-900 rpms . (This is done by closing idle screw; and then adjusting screw stops on cable connection to throttle plate to get rpms to 700-800. Then open idle screw to get to 900. )This assumes there are no unrecognized air leaks. Part of that assumption is that AAV is fully closed by this time.
Once adjusted, then see what happens with AAV. At that point you would need to figure out if it’s too open or too closed for the air-fuel mixture. Part of the frustration of this adjustment is it really should be done at a separate time when car is cold, because the CSI contribution to the starting fuel mixture needs to be balanced with the extra air from the AAV; and the contribution of CSI is variable and inversely proportional to temperature of engine at start time

[tima01864]

Fuel pump is energized with key in on position on my 1983 FI 2000, Unplugged AFM fuel pump still on. Does this lead to a faulty or messed with dual relay?