It needs to be said - Fiats suck

[spider2081]

Just got home from the closest Fiat dealer about 30 miles from home. I brought the car in fro the clutch recall. A woman about 45-55 came in the waiting room using a walker and weighing something like 250-300 lbs. She sat down and complained to another customer her 500 is difficult to get in and out of. I didn't join the conversation.

For me the biggest disappointment with the Fiat line is it appears to me Fiat is not making a real effort to improve the cars or the service commitment to their product line. I was not surprised that entering a new market and opening a new assembly line would have growing pains. My issue is it does not appear to be getting better with time. I think 4 dealers have closed their doors here in Connecticut leaving 2 dealers in the State. I know of one couple who traded their 500L for a VW because the dealer they purchased it from closed and the remaining dealers were an hour away. I like the cars but the support needs to vastly improve.

[AndyS]

one of my friends bought a 500 turbo in 2014. I drove it a coupe of weeks ago, and it was making some pretty bad noises. I told him to take it to the dealer right away. He found out at with only 30K on it, it already needs a new engine. in the van they gave him a ride back in, was another person that had a Fiat 500 turbo, and they needed a new engine as well. so we are not just talking about small pesky issues.

No big surprise unfortunately. Chrysler is always the least reliable US car maker, and they got together with Fiat, Europe's least reliable builder. and they have them built in Mexico, a country not known for impeccable quality control. what could go wrong?

[djape1977]

should i mention that when you're buying highly tuned small engined car, one should not expect it to last if trashed accordingly?
regardless what advertising tells you

also, i suspect that somewhere along the way, the price of these cars is built up significantly. over here, where 500L is made, it will set you back 10k for a base model and up to 15 if you go for bigger engine and all the gadgets. dunno what's the current going rate for a new 500, but 10k for a new 500L makes it a cheap car in my book

[spider2081]

but 10k for a new 500L makes it a cheap car in my book

The sticker on our 500L was over 25,000 US dollars in May of 2014. So not really inexpensive for its size and a 2 wheel drive vehicle. So far we have not experienced the issues others have. Both my wife and I like the car and would consider buying another.

It has been unlucky with accidents. We were on vacation in VA and a Toyota 4 wheel drive pickup rear ended us while we were parked at a traffic light only 3800 miles on the car at that time. Last August we loaned the car to a friend for a Fiat club weekend drive. A SUV cut them off and they hit the curb damaging the right 2 wheels. Then last October a neighbors tree feel on it and damaged the hood. Lastly driving to NJ for a Fiat Breakfast this January a bus threw a stone that cracked the windshield. Luckily although some close calls the being rear ended was the most expensive to repair. That damage was over $4500.

[aj81spider]

should i mention that when you're buying highly tuned small engined car, one should not expect it to last if trashed accordingly?
regardless what advertising tells you

This goes back to my earlier point of knowing your market. Most Americans want a car that they turn the key and drive away and don't have to worry about treating it with care. Additionally - this highly tuned small engined car doesn't have any advantages over the competition which doesn't need particular care to keep from exploding at 30,000 miles. I happen to be a Honda fan - I've had great luck and the cars are high quality and last forever with no real maintenance (change the oil when the light comes on, change the brake pads when they squeal, new tires when the wear bands show). My kids have my old Hondas and abuse them mercilessly and they keep on running.

Comparing the cars on Edmunds:

Fiat: 1.4 liter multi-air turbo: 160 hp/premium gas; 28 mpg; 0-60 8 sec; base price: $19,495 - expected life ??
Car and driver review summary:

The 500L features styling that’s adorable to many but a bit too squee-worthy to others. Bigger overall than the regular 500, it has up to 68 cubic feet of storage space, but the interior is poorly assembled and full of cheap materials. A six-speed manual is standard; the optional six-speed automatic is slow to shift and saps driving fun. Both transmissions mate to a 160-hp turbo four. The 500L’s powertrain is challenged by highway merging, but its quick steering puts it at home on city streets.

Civic: 1.8 liter naturally aspirated: 158 hp/regular gas; 31 mpg; 0-60 6.9 sec; base price: $18,640 - expected life 200,000 miles
Car and Driver review summary:

The Civic exemplifies automotive excellence and blends fun with efficiency and practicality. Precise steering, a solid chassis, and a well-tuned suspension provide both a compliant ride and sweet handling.

Based on that Fiat's results in North America are not unexpected. They are competing against cars that are higher quality, lower price, and better performance. There may be emotional reasons to buy a Fiat (and I will concede that a lot of car buying is emotional), but there is no rational reason to buy one.

[djape1977]

25.000$ is very steep for such a car in my opinion. i imagine yours is on the top end as far as options go, so that should put it's price here at around more realistic 15k. add to that 1000$ of transport cost to east coast of US, probably couple thousand in paperwork, import duties etc, and that leaves healthy 7k profit per car for dealer. for that kind of money, i'd expect amazing customer service.

[spider2081]

nd that leaves healthy 7k profit per car for dealer

And shortly after we bought the car the dealer went out of business.

[PhillySpider]

Civic SI is one sweet little japanese econobox. All this money talk though, last time I checked you couldn't buy cool. The only thing I like about the new FIATA is it brought some notoriaty to our little spiders. That's a double edged sword though...

[spidernut]

I originally planned on buying a new 124 Spider (came really, really close and even the wife said "yes"). I decided to give it some time to see how reliability stacks up. Since it is the same engine in the Fiat 500s which have been less than stellar on reliability, I have changed my mind. I'm not sure that I would buy one any longer. Quality and durability matters when you're spending almost $30K on a two-seater.

[nelsonj]

I really hoped FIAT would have learned there lesson, and that even a "bad" modern car would still have reasonable reliability. My hope was with a "good" new name, there would be increased intrest/demand for our little toys.

FIAT entered the market with three strikes against them with anyone that remembered the brand. I still hear storied about "the federal government forced them to buy my car back" stories to this day. They needed to prove the critics wrong to succeed. They have failed miserably and unless they turn it around and at least make the 500 a reliable car - they are doomed in the US and will exit the market in the next few years. It was their's to blow, and they blew it.

Personally, I like the Abarth's and it might be a neat play to pick one up used on the cheap.

But for a new car, the 124 can't stack up with the Miata because of the (large) reliability gap. And the new Miata RF looks really good to me - I love targa's even more than softtops.

Sorry - I really wanted FIAT to succeed.

[RRoller123]

But the old ones are pretty good!

[spider2081]

New data certainly doesn't help

http://www.thedrive.com/the-hammer/8692 ... d=sr-link4

[jwldane]

Sad to see this happening to Fiat here in the states.

I was hoping the 124 would help bring the brand back as I never thought the 500 would attract much more than the Smart car or Prius crowd. Great car in London, Paris or Rome and the sales numbers there prove it, but not in the states. No different than the F-150 sales in Europe. You can't maintain a model or brand with those numbers.

Unfortunately I think the Mazda's reliability and the new RF will be the beginning of the end for Fiat in the U.S. If they could put some distance between the 124 and MX5 in terms of styling and real horsepower gains, then maybe they could justify the higher prices they are demanding. They also need to offer a wider product base. The 500 and 124 alone just is not going to appeal to enough people.

My 2 cents worth.

[spidernut]

He made my point perfectly with facts and figures.

Generally, I really like the new 124 Spider. The 500 Abarth was a blast to drive too despite the horrendous blind spot. The problem is that all of the Fiat models are niche cars. There are no mainstream models for the American market. They're European cars being sold in America (and a Japanese one). Marchionne once said Fiat will always be a small car company. Americans don't like small cars especially small cars with poor reliability. Even with stellar reliability, it is tough to compete in the American market.

I'd hate to see Fiat exit the American market, but unless something significant changes I also believe they're doomed once again to fail.

[AndyS]

Unfortunately I think the Mazda's reliability and the new RF will be the beginning of the end for Fiat in the U.S. If they could put some distance between the 124 and MX5 in terms of styling and real horsepower gains, then maybe they could justify the higher prices they are demanding

The Miatas on the whole are actually a little more expensive than the 124's, but not the Abarth version. since it is Mazda assembling the cars with over 70% of the car of Japanese origin., i do expect them to be reliable. I am just not sure there will be any fiat dealers still around to service the warranties in a few years.