Engine randomly missing after engine bay washed (SOLVED!!!!!!)

[micbrody]

So I added extra insulation between steering box and hot wire.........and......


still the same problem..........



In middle of drive, I stopped and checked on double relay. Shook it but no change in RPM. (The double relay was not mounted to bottom of dash/glove.... just hanging. I thought maybe the tension on the relay and/or the geometry of it hanging might allow the relay connections to become flaky when turning. I lodged it under another wire bundle in roughly the geometry it was meant to lay.
I then continued my drive......... and .................



TOTAL SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[micbrody]

PO had it dangling; I did clean up bad contacts on itwhen I got car; and it worked fine. Not sure exactly how it was hanging then; but not attached.
So probably the tension of harness on relay might have caused a bad connection in a wire; or the double relay is still flaky with movement, but not when laying horizontal vs vertical........

Either way..... what a journey....... but like most journeys on this car, I sure learned a lot more about how this and other cars work.

I probably should investigate the double relay harness and get a new double relay....... but I will enjoy the moment now.........

[AriK]

That's awesome!!!

[micbrody]

So the washing of engine bay was a huge red herring!

The PO had replaced the factory middle console with a homemade job (plywood with vinyl wrapped; and cutouts for switches, map light, radio. This also included the horizontal part with stick, E. brake. He actually did a very nice job on it; with one exception: There was no control for heat. Only the fan switch.
When I went under dash, I realized the heat valve was frozen; and after reading other people's woes, decided not to force it open and have antifreeze leak in cabin. Last summer, I added a manual valve inside engine compartment to turn on/off radiator fluid to heater core. Worked fine.
Roughly within last month, I "upgraded" my heat control to a lever style valve that can connect to a throttle push/pull cable I mounted on the homemade middle console. While routing the cable from cabin into engine bay, I am sure I moved the double relay from its previous "resting position".

The definite lesson I learned; and hopefully others who followed thread: double relays can be CRAZY flaky

[AriK]

Did the sound of it clicking give it àway?

[RRoller123]

Doesn't it sit in a relay holder under the glove box for that year, that holds it rigidly in place? Or was that removed by the PO?

Glad you found the source! That was a tricky one.

Pete

[micbrody]

It wasn't making audible clicking noise; maybe couldn't hear it because of engine pulsating from high to low Rpm; also, since not attached, nothing to resonate the sound. For all I know , it wasn't even clicking; just the change of momentum made relay contact flaky.

As for mount: there was no separate bracket......unless it is in the tray where the horn and chimes relays are.
I though maybe it's attached with a screw to the bottom of that tray.....seems to be a screw hole.

[micbrody]

As for replacement double relay, there seems to be a few model numbers: 0 332 514 121, 0 332 514 127

I read a thread about how resistor fails in these. Do different model numbers means that largest is "best or new improved"? Or it really doesn't matter?

[rridge]

The relay tray that holds the double relay and other electrical connectors and components under the glove box was often removed when a/c was installed because the a/c box needed the space. It would be worth your while to get another one and re-install it. If a/c was installed and then removed, you will probably find some other iffy electrical work in the same area. You might even find some poorly plugged holes in the firewall in that area. More info here: http://www.dcfiats.org/tech/Fuses_Relays-B.pdf

[joelittel]

Congratulations!

[spider2081]

Great find and thanks for sharing it with us.

[RRoller123]

The relay tray that holds the double relay and other electrical connectors and components under the glove box was often removed when a/c was installed because the a/c box needed the space. It would be worth your while to get another one and re-install it. If a/c was installed and then removed, you will probably find some other iffy electrical work in the same area. You might even find some poorly plugged holes in the firewall in that area. More info here: http://www.dcfiats.org/tech/Fuses_Relays-B.pdf

+1 on that. Having all the relays and associated wiring hanging in the air is cause for more trouble!

[micbrody]

I do have a relay tray under glove box. All the other relays there. I ordered new double relay.

Just took for a drive. It feels great! Not sure if it's a placebo effect, but I'm wondering if beefing up the grounds helped engine performance ?

[ORFORD2004]

Did you open the double relay? Bad solder?

[micbrody]

I have not recently opened relay. However, over a year ago I did; cleaned all contacts ; inspected; circuit board; I believe I tested resistor.

I think the geometry of how it was hanging was the problem ; either connectors or wires have bad connection; or the relay sitting vertically somehow allowed a new range of motion of magnet - induced contact that didn't favor full electrical contact.
Either way, I just ordered new relay. I have had occasional hot start issues; maybe related to relay
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