Engine randomly missing after engine bay washed (SOLVED!!!!!!)

[micbrody]

AriK,

Very pretty engine bay. Looks so immaculate that you could eat off of it ! (Except for very hairy spider......)

[RRoller123]

The Gas tank being near empty when the problem started implies that crud on the bottom of the tank got sucked up into the fuel delivery system. The fact that it occurs only when turning Left, implies that there is some form of a geometric component. Maybe the ground strap or other critical line, like an FI lead, etc, is stretched and breaks contact when turning, maybe crud in the fuel system dislodges when turning Left, something like that. Have you tried putting the car up on jack stands at front and having someone turn the wheel lock-lock while watching closely underneath? This is a very odd problem!

Pete

[micbrody]

In previous post on thread, I did mention me jacking front of car up and turning wheel.
What I noticed was the speedo cable made contact with steering linkage. (Of course, wheels were hanging; so not exactly sure what touches what when weight on wheels). I did forget to mention that a zip tie was loosely strapped to keep speedo cable from sagging too low. It was zip tied to grounding wire.
So my new theory is that the touching of speedo cable on left hand turns caused minor movement of grounding wire. But if wire has corroded electrical connection to chassis, this change in ground conductivity is responsible for the performance issue. Another thing I neglected to mention: when I had car jacked up, I cut off zip tie; and stabilized speedo cable with another zip tie to the clutch cable. (I felt the need to stabilize cable because is seemed to always lay in the gap where the movable spring loaded clutch lever is located. Didn't want to get it crushed while shifting). I inspected grounding cable; wiggled it a little. Seemed intact. However, when I went to start car, it took a very long crank time. (So long, I stopped ; looked under hood to see if I had disconnected something). Tried to restart, and it did, but still after long crank time. ......... so maybe the wiggling of ground strap created a very bad connection.

I hope to get done early at work today; and add extra grounds to engine head. Hopefully..... that is the solution

[wizard124]

Disconnect AFM plug and inspect. Make sure the individual pins have not recessed into the plug. Or just wiggle the wire bundle at idle/ revved to check connection.

Pull fuel hose at CSI. Check pressure and volume. Fuel pump runs in START if wired properly.

Check vacuum hose atop fuel pressue regulator.

Check timing.

Sounds to me that the grounding issue has you side tracked

[micbrody]

I have done all of what you suggested over the last 6 months...... other than check pins in AFM plug.

I have wiggled all usual suspect electrical cables: AFM, TPS, T-coolant thermostat.....no change in idle.

About 6 months ago, went completely through fuel system; pulled injecters ; cleaned; tested TTS/CSI

Used a fuel pressure gauge on CSI tube: did have a pressure issue- changed fuel pump, all was good.
Pressure regulator seems to function and release per vacuum procedure (don't exactly remember the procedure...)

Checked timing a few days ago.

I hope I'm not barking up the wrong tree, but seems like contact with grounding wire by steering linkage is best explanation for problem always happening on left handed turns from a stop

[RRoller123]

Given the Ty-Wrap experience, I think you are on the right track with the ground wire being suspect.

[micbrody]

Update:

I added extra ground (4 gauge) from battery to chassis in the trunk.

I added a very thick, braided grounding cable from frame of car (inside engine compartment, front driver side) to bracket holding alternator.

Went for a ride.......... and..........


still the same stuff. left hand turn causes engine to pulsate and bog down; straight away is good; right turn is good.

SO: three possibilities (.......I think.......):

1: The grounding cable I added in engine compartment is not "contributing" to engine block ground. In other words, it's not equivalent to the ground that goes from bottom of car to transmission. How could that be? Not really sure..... Maybe the bracket that holds alternator to engine block makes poor connection because of years of grease that have accumulated between the engine block, bolts, and brackets. I did dremel the paint on frame to bare metal; and also the contact points on alternator bracket; used copper antiseize for conductivity. (I don't think so........ but how could I find out? One way is to just cut the original grounding link from frame to transmission. If zero connection, and car performs worse (or not even start), then my new ground is not equivalent.)
Another thing I can do is to double up ground on transmission bolt and make new connection to frame under the car.
I really have not decided what to do..... I will again get under car to see if there is some other explanation via steering linkage that could cause this problem. Also, though I already did this, I am going to look under dash to see if steering linkage is hitting some bundle of wire.....on left hand turns........???? (or could there be an electrical short in steering column that would not blow a fuse; but cause major voltage change on left hand turns?....... horn , turn signal, brights circuits.......????)

2) gas tank has a geometric semi-attached piece of crud that interrupts gas flow when gas sloshes around in a certain fashion. I still do not think this is the problem as problem occurs immediately (first half second into left turn from stop)...... I would think fuel rail would have enough pressure until after turn completed before engine bogs down; and gas should be sloshing back and forth on a right hand turn....should also eventually cause problem.... but it does not.

3) No friggin idea.........

[micbrody]

I just got under car again. This time I jacked up car; turned the wheels to the left and then lowered wheels on a tire stand, so to simulate left hand turn with full weight on vehicle. Though the grounding wire is close to steering linkage, I don't see it making contacting. I manipulated the grounding wire, and then left it bent in a way that it would definitely not come close to steering linkage.

Took it for a drive........
again.......on on left hand turns!!!!!!

I think I'm done with my grounding wire hypothesis........ at least I now have grounding redundancies!!!

So my next exploration would be...... steering column.

Visually from outside, I don't see anything special. I will have to look at electrical schematics....

Anyone have an idea as to which circuit could explain this???

One other thing I checked was the starter relay....thinking maybe I had a bad relay. I added relay last year to take amps off of ignition switch. The way I tested was to start car; then disconnect the relay electrically from car....... still did the same thing. Maybe the motion affects other relays: the double relay? and I also added relays to for headlights to take amperage off of column, ignition, and dash switch.


I'm grasping at straws..........

[spider2081]

really strange. Usually if washing the engine causes a problem it can be corrected by replacing the plugs and the distributor cap and rotor. The fact you have this only making left turns is mind boggling.
Maybe washing the engine has nothing to do with your problem. Do you have a spare coil pack or know someone you could borrow one from. The ignition control module can cause some frustrating problems to solve. Its easier to change the whole pack then to disassemble to replace module.

[AriK]

Really long and lots of points to consider.
Truly mind boggling it is.  I've been following your thread and im trying to do some CSI.  I hope you don't consider it prying but i've dug into your previous threads for any possible evidence that could lead to a solution.
  The facts imply that the condition is improving, no longer doing it on straight aways or right turns.
  Aside from having let it idle for 20 minutes at a time, have you actually driven it for a longer period of time or have you been just going around the block to test the condition?   Can you drive it easy and avoid the symptom? Do the conditions improve with each drive?  Same symptoms driving for an hour as opposed to 10 min?
  Before you sign off with the ground hypothesis, did you try disconnecting the oem ground from the starter/bellhousing and check to see if the new grounds compensate? Any change of symptoms? (It will also confirm the impact of your new grounds. Again, don't cut this wire no matter how bad it looks) .
  You mention this may have been a pre existing condition since last year.  You never mentioned how you eliminated the problem last year.  Any hints will be helpful.
  You need to reconstruct some of the work/maintenance you've been recently performing. 
 You've been inside the AFM recently , you've made some adjustments? Flap door? Recheck.
 You have r&r'd  the exhaust manifold. What else came apart during this procedure? You need to revisit any affected  items and check and recheck their connections, maybe twisted wiring or oxidized connections since the wash? 
 You have changed the fuel pump a while back.   It has its own ground, i believe on the taillight housing.  Check to see if it's secure.  You never know, it might have a fetish for left hand turns.  .  
Check to see if this is a motion related problem or just a load induced problem.  Set the handbrake tight and goose it into 1st gear while riding the clutch and see if the condition replicates.  Try checking if steering influences this.  You mentioned it takes a half a second to act up.  Is that a half a second of engine load or distance rolled. Use the process of elimination.
Is there any odor, any sounds, double relay clicking etc?  Fuses are tight in their holders?  Do headlights or other electrical go out during the offending symptoms? Unlikely and probably straying away,  but no burned contacts or loose or sloppy wiring in your ignition switch connector C31 or the pink wire to the ignition coil? 
Perhaps have a brave helper stand on the outside checking what exactly moves around in the engine compartment while the engine rocks back and forth.  For instance  a bad  ignition cable could have been recently re-routed and arcs somewhere only when engine is under load and influenced  by a bad motor mount, it's hypothetical but all avenues must be checked. At this point be suspicious of all motion created.
Try these kinds of tests and the process of elimination may spark someone's  suggestion and get you closer to a solution.

  

[RRoller123]

I wonder if there is a wire leading off of the ignition switch that is getting hung up by the steering column in a left hand turn?.....

[AriK]

I thought i was straying away from the facts by implying that it's a live positive wire creating this problem. The slightest short would either burn a fuse or melt wiring. The smell of burned wiring would be enormously overwhelming.

[aj81spider]

A completely different thought that may be way off base.

I had a problem with my '81 that occasionally on long rides it would start bogging down and then surging. It would happen at highway speed generally and then it would go away.

It turned out I had a crack in the rubber air inlet tube between the air box and the manifold. Check that for cracks. If it flexes on a left hand turn and opens up a crack that might cause the type of problem you are seeing.

Just a random thought.

[micbrody]

Thanks to everyone for following the thread.
As per some of the questions from last few posts:
I did take it for a drive back and forth from the DMV to renew collector plates (no need for emissions test! And crazy cheap insurance).
It was still doing it. In way home , I went a different way to minimize left hand turns!

I do like the idea of unscrewing ground transmission (not cutting) to see if extra ground is contributing

One thing about left hand turns I need to check is if it related to the momentum of left hand turns vs the geometry of left hand turns (steering wheel and tires). I think I will take it to an empty parking lot and see what happens. If it happens just to geometry, then I will sequentially disconnect the two plugs for the steering column switches to see if that helps. One repair I did when I got car was to fix horn button. I did have to add/solder (don't exactly remember) the hot contact that slides along a copper contact disc inside steering column; I also had to add wire to reach button that eventually grounds to steering column. I would think a short there would just cause horn to go off; but maybe there is some debris from my "handy work" that is causing some communication between the other switches...... easiest just to disconnect the two connectors and see if that helps

I did check under dash to see if any wires are being "manipulated" only on left hand turns; nothing obvious

The large air intake: I have checked and don't see any holes...... I had previously taken off sealed one end with plastic wrap ; covered AAV valve with finger....and then blew (yes ....with my mouth) into other side. Held high pressure; no leaks. It was a "static" experiment .....meaning I did not try to flex the hose

[micbrody]

Update:

I disconnected the two steering column connectors behind the dash. Went for a drive.......

still the same phenomenon!!!

While standing still (neutral), I turned wheels to the left and revved the engine. Smooth revving.

While car is going straight 20-30 miles an hour and I then steer left (a small turn of wheel; but fixed (not a sudden jerk), the engine pulsates.

If I go 20-30 MPH, and then I violently swerve left and right, repeatedly. the engine only pulsates when car is going left; which indicates to me it is not a gas tank thing, because I did it so violently and repetitively over 100 yards, that the sloshing in tank should have been chaotic enough to do it occasionally when going to the right.

I did measure the temperatures of the front brakes, they were within 10-15 degrees of each other...... thought maybe brakes are locking down...... but really doesn't seem like that, especially from a stop........

I am running out of ideas.......

So I am still left with "when engine under torque (load) and steering wheel to the left" is when this happens.
My next theory......very weak........but not sure where to go:
The main thick battery positive cable enters the engine bay and then loops around eventually to starter. The cable is green; but it has some thick black insulation around it. The cable travels next to the steering box in the engine bay on its way to the starter. Maybe a small crack in insulation coupled with metallic change within steering box causes some short, but only when extreme amps being pulled........
Sounds crazy........ but I'll try anything........