Squeak driving me insane

[nicktheviking]

I just picked up a 1980 Spider.

There is a LOUD squeak coming from my right front wheel area. It seems to occur only when I'm moving at low-speeds.

I can't tell if applying the brakes changes the squeak or if they have a squeal of their own.

Wheel bearing? Brake component?

[mbouse]

could be that, or a failing ball joint, or a dry tie rod end, or even a-arm bushings, might even be the shock absorber.

that it goes away at high speeds is no indication that the source of the squeak is speed related.

i'm betting on ball joints. you said nothing about brake inefficiencies or tire wobble.

[nicktheviking]

How difficult is a ball joint to replace?

I'm going to attack the suspension bushings with lubricant this weekend, see if that helps.

[mbouse]

well, that depends on if you have rivets or nut & bolts holding your ball joint to your a-arms. on a scale of 1-5, i'd give it a 3 or 3.5.

not for the faint of heart, or someone that does not know what a pickle fork is, or own a set of spring compressors.

[nicktheviking]

I've replaced springs/shocks before, and I'm familiar with a pickle fork. How can I tell if I have rivets or nuts? Is it a model year thing or more random than that?

[mbouse]

the ball joints are in full view on the tip of the a-arms. if they are bolted on, they are easily removed from the a-arms. then the difficult task is just removing them from the spindle.

if they are riveted on...you will see three rivets and no nuts & bolts. then you gotta grind or cut the rivets without gouging or cutting the a-arm. more difficult than it sounds, but not impossible. and you still gotta remove the ball joints from the spindle.

then you can install your new ball joints. and you will have old a-arms with new ball joints (which is o.k.) but you will still have old a-arm bushings, which is alright if the bushings are not worn. you will eventually wish you'd have changed the bushings once you go to all this work.

now, the WHILE YOU ARE THERE rule comes into play. while you have stripped down your suspension this far, why not put new bearings in place? you gotta take them off to replace the ball joints anyway. don't forget to order some new spindle nuts.

or-- you could buy new a-arms WITH new bushings and new ball joints. that whole set up is only about $135 per side, not including bearings or spindle nuts. and it is simple for anyone that has mastered changing shocks and springs.

[nicktheviking]

I think I'd prefer to opt for the all-in-one solution. Can you link to a good place to buy those assemblies?

[mbouse]

the prices i suggested come from the current hard copy catalogue from http://www.international-auto.com
I do not pretend to know what current pricing is.

you may also want to check with any of the following for these specific items:
http://www.vickauto.com Last i looked, their prices were less expensive than IAP
http://www.fiatparts.com
http://www.baylessfiat.com
http://www.midwest124.com

good luck. Oh, and what ever you do, be advised that the spindle nuts are not always reusable. For $4 each, it is a good investment to go ahead and order them. you will end up using them one time or another.

[ga.spyder]

I had bad squeaking in the front end when I bought my car.I checked the ball joints and they were fine,no excessive play. I eliminated the squeak by putting an injection needle on my grease gun,poking it thru the boots,and greasing the ball joints.Worked like a charm.Make sure the ball joints arent shot! A failure could be a catastrophe.I am still going for a front end rebuild this winter ,as my bushings are all worn out.
good luck ,Craig

[mbouse]

no offense craig, but a ball bearing failure WILL be catostrophic... not could be. depending on the speed travelled when the unpredicted failure occurs, well... i am sure there are some pictures floating around out there..

[nicktheviking]

Thanks guys, interesting development:

I went outside and pushed down on my front left fender. The shock rebounded, but it made a squeaking noise!

Also, how do I check for ball joint play? Vertical movement of the wheels when they're off the ground or what?

[rlux4]

Get the tire off the ground. Place your hands at 12:00 and 6:00 and do a push and pull. It's a good idea to have a second set of eyes watching the ball joints to look for movement at the knuckle. Do the push pull on the sides (3:00 and 9:00) will give you a test of the tie rods. I had a squeak at my front end when I got the car and it was a bad upper ball joint. Mine were original and riveted on, so I drilled the rivets out.
Ron

[So Cal Mark]

the jack gets placed in different spots depending if you are checking upper or lower ball joints. Place the jack under the lower arm in order to check the lower bj, under the unibody to check the upper bjs

[mbouse]

lift the wheel off the ground with zero pressure from the floor or your jack on the a-arms. grab the wheel at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock and vigorously rock the wheel top to bottom. lots of movement would indicate worn ball joints.

don't recall where you said you lived, but i am guessing based on your user name that you are expecting quite a bit of down time due to weather in about six weeks.

since this is a 1980 of unknown mechanical background, and you are already suspecting more than one suspension part is worn, i would plan on a thorough replacement of all wear items, with a complete front end alignment in the spring. with ample time ahead of you, and a knowledgeable force of 'eggsperts' at your disposal here at the forum...you should be able to completely replace your entire front end steering and suspension components before next spring. new:
a-arm bushing
ball joints
tie rod ends
anti-sway bar bushings
shocks
bearings
brake pads & hoses

you'll also be confident that your brake calipers and rotors are in fine working condition, and will be able to step out on the streets next spring in fine shape.

by the way, not to change the subject...but have you any idea when the timing belt and guibo were last changed?

[nicktheviking]

I guess my username is a bit misleading. I'm actually in southern California!

The Fiat is a rolling restoration and my daily driver. (contradiction in terms?)

I'm going to pull the wheels off this Friday to thoroughly inspect the suspension. I'll check for play as instructed above. I may follow the advice and just replace those wear items pre-emptively.

Luckily, the previous owner had the timing belt changed 1000 miles ago.