So I recently purchased a 1972 850 Spider from a friend of mine. It's been sitting up for about 2 years under a tarp until just recently when I got it into my garage. I wanted to make sure that the engine hadn't locked up from the years of sitting outside, so I hooked the car up to a friend's truck and, after removing the spark plug wires so it wouldn't fire and possibly damage something, slowly pulled the car forward with the clutch disengaged. After the car was moving, I released the clutch and felt the transmission engage with the wheels continuing to turn. This has me under the impression that the engine isn't locked up, as I assume that if it were locked, then the wheels would have stopped turning once the clutch was engaged.
After getting through that, I decided to see if the starter would turn the engine over (again without the spark plug wires and fuel line in place to prevent the aforementioned damage). The car was given a fresh battery and after turning they key, all the lights came on, suggesting that the wiring in the car was sound. However, when I tried to turn the engine over, the only sound heard was a single 'tick', then silence.
I've said all that to say this... I have little to no knowledge of mechanics or vehicle repair. I'm doing this just to fill up some spare time between work days. It's been a dream of mine to have a classic FIAT or Alfa convertible. As far as the work that I've done so far, I would like to hope that I'm on the right track, but to be honest, I am not entirely sure. I've got a new starter on order now and plan to replace the alternator in the next week or so, as they both look like they are original parts. My question to anyone here who has more repair knowledge than I (which is probably just about anyone who reads this) is, based on what I done to see if the engine was not locked up, would you agree with me in saying that the engine is good in that respect, or am I missing something? Also, what advise can be given with regards to it not turning over when I turn the ignition key?
Trouble getting things started with a '72 850 Spider
-
bjbrown
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:32 pm
- Your car is a: 1980 fiat spider 2000
- Location: Boise, Idaho, USA
Re: Trouble getting things started with a '72 850 Spider
TheDoctor,
I too have a 1972 Fiat 850 spider. It was "running" when I got it so I never had to check to see if the engine was frozen. You're doing right to try turning it over without sparkplugs and fuel lines. Please note that if the engine is turning, the fuel pump is still working, so you may want to take the input side hose (from the tank) off the pump until you're convinced it's cranking OK. I'd recommend putting some automatic trans fluid down each spark plug hole just to lube things up. Shouldn't need much - maybe a tablespoon or two. Then, I think cranking it with a socket wrench and breaker bar would tell you if anything is frozen or broken inside. Once you have it turning over with no problems, then I'd hook things back up. Before installing the new battery, I'd first check the ground straps from the engine to the frame of the car. In the front (trunk) where the battery is held, the ground cable goes to the frame. Check that the connection is clean and solid - that's critical. Also critical is the ground strap between the engine block and the body. Now, mine was um, creatively replaced and had but few strands of wire connecting. It's imperative to have this connection solid and of appropriately heavy gauge cable. Check the connections on the starter and then see if it'll crank over on it's own.
If you get it cranking, understand that it'll take a bit of cranking to get the fuel from the pump to fill the float bowl in the carburetor. Now, I'm supposing that you have a stock setup with a mechanical fuel pump and the stock 30DIC carb. If I've let mine sit for more than a couple weeks, the fuel will drain (siphon?) out of the carb and it takes a while to re-fill. I plan to put a check valve in someday... While you're checking the fuel lines, replace the fuel filter. I recommend a metal-body filter rather than the plastic or glass varieties. This simply for the sake of safety. Replace every year or so. Anyway, once you've checked all that and replaced everything, crank it for a while in say, 10-15 second spurts to get the gas up to the carb, then pump the throttle while cranking. Works for mine. If you have a working choke mechanism, use it, but check that it works. When I bought mine, the choke was stuck in the full choke position and the dealer couldn't get it started (good for me negotiating price...
).
One thing you'll need to know when you get it started is how to clean the idle jets on the carb. The Weber 30DIC has two of these - one on either side. They're accessed through a little brass screw which holds the jet pressed into the center of the "screw" (which is hollow in the center). This screw has an o-ring, so don't lose it, but inspect to see if it needs replacement. With the screw in hand, simply pull the jet out of the end of the screw and examine it in the light to see if it has any crud plugging it up. This is a common issue and will prevent the engine from idling at all. When I got my car, I replaced the fuel filter and still had to clear the jets from time-to-time for six months before the fuel system cleared. Now, it's not a problem at all.
Those are some immediate thoughts. Really, the 850 engine is a very simple and robust machine, very easy to work on and not at all complex. I've had mine for probably 15 or 20 years as a daily runner with nearly zero problems once I got the issues solved from the ham-handed previous owner (check elsewhere in these discussions for POS - Previous Owner Syndrome
).
Good luck and let us know how it goes! Pictures too, please!
-Bob
I too have a 1972 Fiat 850 spider. It was "running" when I got it so I never had to check to see if the engine was frozen. You're doing right to try turning it over without sparkplugs and fuel lines. Please note that if the engine is turning, the fuel pump is still working, so you may want to take the input side hose (from the tank) off the pump until you're convinced it's cranking OK. I'd recommend putting some automatic trans fluid down each spark plug hole just to lube things up. Shouldn't need much - maybe a tablespoon or two. Then, I think cranking it with a socket wrench and breaker bar would tell you if anything is frozen or broken inside. Once you have it turning over with no problems, then I'd hook things back up. Before installing the new battery, I'd first check the ground straps from the engine to the frame of the car. In the front (trunk) where the battery is held, the ground cable goes to the frame. Check that the connection is clean and solid - that's critical. Also critical is the ground strap between the engine block and the body. Now, mine was um, creatively replaced and had but few strands of wire connecting. It's imperative to have this connection solid and of appropriately heavy gauge cable. Check the connections on the starter and then see if it'll crank over on it's own.
If you get it cranking, understand that it'll take a bit of cranking to get the fuel from the pump to fill the float bowl in the carburetor. Now, I'm supposing that you have a stock setup with a mechanical fuel pump and the stock 30DIC carb. If I've let mine sit for more than a couple weeks, the fuel will drain (siphon?) out of the carb and it takes a while to re-fill. I plan to put a check valve in someday... While you're checking the fuel lines, replace the fuel filter. I recommend a metal-body filter rather than the plastic or glass varieties. This simply for the sake of safety. Replace every year or so. Anyway, once you've checked all that and replaced everything, crank it for a while in say, 10-15 second spurts to get the gas up to the carb, then pump the throttle while cranking. Works for mine. If you have a working choke mechanism, use it, but check that it works. When I bought mine, the choke was stuck in the full choke position and the dealer couldn't get it started (good for me negotiating price...
). One thing you'll need to know when you get it started is how to clean the idle jets on the carb. The Weber 30DIC has two of these - one on either side. They're accessed through a little brass screw which holds the jet pressed into the center of the "screw" (which is hollow in the center). This screw has an o-ring, so don't lose it, but inspect to see if it needs replacement. With the screw in hand, simply pull the jet out of the end of the screw and examine it in the light to see if it has any crud plugging it up. This is a common issue and will prevent the engine from idling at all. When I got my car, I replaced the fuel filter and still had to clear the jets from time-to-time for six months before the fuel system cleared. Now, it's not a problem at all.
Those are some immediate thoughts. Really, the 850 engine is a very simple and robust machine, very easy to work on and not at all complex. I've had mine for probably 15 or 20 years as a daily runner with nearly zero problems once I got the issues solved from the ham-handed previous owner (check elsewhere in these discussions for POS - Previous Owner Syndrome
).Good luck and let us know how it goes! Pictures too, please!
-Bob
Boise, Idaho
1980 Spider 2000 EFI
1972 Sport Spider 850
1980 Spider 2000 EFI
1972 Sport Spider 850