Frustrating no spark issue

[76was124]

Thanks David. I am drawing the same conclusion about the distributor. I have replaced all of the other listed components. I do not have one I can swap with somebody but I have a source where I can probably get a good used one

Did you gap the pick up sensor when you replaced it? Magnet correct side down?

[ga.spyder]

Yes,I did gap the mag p/u and installed the magnet'stripe down'.I went back and double checked to be sure.I am missing somethig somewhere.Until this first started I had a great running car.Now,the spark isnt intermittent...it is non-existant! Since I have power at the coil,but not the plugs,I will focus in between.I started out looking for this systematically,but since it was intermittent I never knew what was actually working.Now,I guess I will go back,one component at a time,until I hopefully stumble onto my problem. I will send a pm about the available dizzy.

[AriK]

Not to sound like an obvious item that hasn't been checked, a badly crimped main ignition cable will slowly cook the conducting fiber creating misfire and then failure.

[ga.spyder]

Thanks Arik...I welcome any suggestions! Obvious or not,I am missing something!

[spider2081]

Just re read your post. I could have missed it but have you checked for spark using the wire out of the coil as well as the spark plug wire? If you have no spark into the distributor than you can't get a spark out. If you have no spark out of the coil on the wire going into the distributor check again substituting a different wire. If you have a spark into the distributor and none coming out I would suspect the rotor or its contacts,
In any case if you have spark coming out of the coil I think the dizzy is good and most likely the ignition control module is working.

[ga.spyder]

Thanks David.I actually havent checked spark out of the coil Duh..... I hope to spend some time on the car this weekend. Thanks again for your advice.You know I have always told people that you are ''The Go-to Guy'' for electrical issues.

[kmead]

Any chance the little sprung post in the center of the distributor cap has worn away or gone missing? This makes contact with the top of the rotor to carry the electricity to it.

Just a thought, a few of us have had this problem and it's hard to notice.

[micbrody]

I know you mentioned switching ICM; maybe the new one is faulty. And, I don't really know how to check an ICM unless you had more sophisticated equipment . Nothing will work if faulty. Get another one from Autozone. You can always return it if need be. I think it's only $25

[ga.spyder]

Thanks guys.I am on my 3rd control module.I think I did have a faulty new one.The dizz cap is fine,and I have swapped it also.
I am frustrated beyond belief.The car was starting after the latest module swap.It was ,however,running poorly.The tach was bouncing,a sure sign of ignition issues, even though the engine was at a steady idle.I went to move her out of the garage on Sat. She started fine,but when I fed her some fuel she backfired loudly.Now...no spark and no start
I am out of ideas ,and dont have the luxury of taking the car to anyone.I am considering getting rid of it.This car is a family member! I have had her for many years of faithful service.She has won car shows(including FFO),run rallies,and done track days.I am not a quitter but dont know where to turn.Any ideas gladly accepted!!

[narfire]

OK, what I would do... screwdriver in spark plug lead and crank. No spark then same with lead from coil. No spark there, check voltage to coil and leads are on right poles. Oh yea. battery connections, especially ground is tight. ( loose ground on my car and no start once). Lead from dist to coil connected properly/tight. Mine has a zap-strap to keep it on the module as it sometimes got loose and no spark.
Check the wires under the cap are sound and not crimped by the rotor cap. ( another issue I had that stopped the car) Clearance from rotor to mag pick up is proper. ( Mine touched and no worky)
Craig, I suspect it is something simple, just chase it back before you keep swapping parts in and out.
Chris

[ga.spyder]

Thanks for the encouragement,Chris.As of yesterday all the battery connections were good.I have 12.8 at the coil ,with the key in'run' position.No spark from coil or at the plugs.I pulled the rotor,and the (new) mag p/u was gapped and the wires were not crimped or bare. The car was running at idle then just stopped.My control module is new.She was starting with a touch of the key,then just shut off with no spark.Same behavior it has been suffering with.
I believe it is something simple,too.The day after taking a 75 mile run thru the mountains,it pulled this 'no start,no spark' in a store parking lot.The first time in my years of ownership she had to be towed.I have been chasing my tail ever since! I started off changing components in a systematic way.Now,it has snowballed to the point I am at a loss for an answer.
Thanks again for the suggestions.I will absolutely go at it again.
Craig

[AriK]

A couple of thoughts:
Possible the alternator is over-charging at 18v causing the module to fail?
Module has the proper grease backing?
The coil to distributor cable isn't tie-wrapped or running alongside the wires leading from the module to pickup coil causing a jump of current causing the module failure?

[kilrwail]

Craig - I feel your pain buddy. I have had this sort of problem a few times and it inevitably came down to (1) broken set of points, (2) bad wire between coil and points or (3) bad ignition switch. I don't think (1) applies to you, but have you replaced the fine wire between the coil and distributor? It can become damaged by heat from the exhaust. What about the ignition switch? Did you have yours rebuilt? Better yet, did you get a new Lada version from AR? Not a bad way to spend $40. Mine has worked perfectly for a year. Good luck - hope to see you in Detroit.

[ga.spyder]

The alternator isnt something I have looked into.I will do that for sure! I do have grease at the back of the con mod.It acts like the control module has failed(again!!).I have an offer to have my original switch rebuilt.I am going to take him up on that.I have also been offered a distributor to try,which I will also take him up on.Thanks guys...I appreciate the advice more than you can know!
Peter,not sure about Detroit.Definitely not if I dont get this figured out soon.

[micbrody]

Ok. Long post but hopefully it will identify problem:

Physics of how coil works:

Low voltage wire wrapped a few times around an iron rod; high voltage wire wrapped a thousand times around same iron rod.
The low voltage wire is energized. This causes magnetic field around iron rod. The low voltage source is interrupted causing magnetic field to collapse. The collapse of magnetic field induces a current with very high voltage in the wire wrapped a thousand times around the iron rod. This is the voltage that is "ejected" from the coil to distributor cap.
How is the low voltage side interrupted? This is where the ICM comes in. It has a wire circuit to a stationary magnet in distributor. When metal in distributor rotor passes the stationary magnet, a very tiny, but measurable current is created and sensed by the distributor side of ICM. This switches a transistor within ICM to shut off low voltage side to coil........ and this leads to the high voltage discharge at coil.

You made a statement earlier in thread:
"I progressively have replaced all parts in the ignition system with known good or new parts.Coil,cap,rotor,mag p/u,control module have all been swapped out"

Since you have two new ICMs that have stopped working, I believe that the ICM is receiving a high voltage short from the coil, destroying it.
This could be from faulty coil (low voltage and high voltage internals are shorting; high voltage shorting to case, ultimately shorting to ground near ICM), or faulty spark wire shorting to ground near ICM.

If you have a bad main spark wire (the one from coil), the voltage will try to find the closest ground to short out through (ICM next to coil).

Another place for short: if insulation on wire from stationary magnet to ICM is frayed near distributor (or on the inside of distributor), the spark in distributor could be distributed to this line, frying out the ICM

I would first change spark wires (not sure you did this). If that doesn't do it, then check low voltage internal resistance in coil; high voltage internal resistance; and then any resistance (possible short) from high voltage outlet to case.