Timing belt / water pump replacement

[KandJinmaine]

It's time to replace the water pump( bad bearings , growl and wobble) and the timing belt on our '80 FI. The timing belt needs replacement due to age and miles served. It was last done about 12 years ago in California by a true gentleman and revered Fiat Master, whose name shall at least for now remain unposted, lest the method he used be deemed wrong. He removed the belt tensioner spring and tensioned the belt with a large pry bar against the bearing and tightened the bolt. It has been many miles and everything has been fine.
Now it's time for me to do it ( we are now in Maine and I believe the gentleman in California has retired) and since I don't have the spring anymore I guess I'll have to do it the same way. I'm looking for advice, tips tricks etc. for this procedure. I'm sure this has been exhaustively covered, but I figure there must be some debate on how to do it.
Thanks, Jeff

[PhillySpider]

My 1980 has 53K miles and best I can tell (contacted 3 shops I have records from) the timing belt has never been replaced. One shop an hour away quoted me 5 hours, $90 in parts for a total of $850. The other shop I quoted said "bring it in, it'll be what it is". Obviously I'm not going with the 2nd shop!...Can anyone comment on a "fair" price range for timing belt replacement?

[bobplyler]

5 hours? I can do it in less than an hour. Of course I've done it before.

[bobplyler]

BTW Midwest bayless has a used tensioner bearing spring.

[RRoller123]

Even at a shop that doesn't specialize in Spiders, but knows small, old foreign cars..... if you give them the documentation showing Aux shaft and Cam mark locations, 2 hours of labor would be a reasonable and fair amount, I think. Couple hundred max. But that would be here in MA. Just my opinion.

[JohnMc]

For my two cents I also would get a tensioner spring - it shows $12 at Bayless. Otherwise how much tension are you putting on?
I think I am getting old, but I need my son to help me change belt. Just too many things to hold etc to do it right - and must be done right.

[KandJinmaine]

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. Seems like a spring is not a bad idea. Thanks bobplyler. Currently, I'm trying to get the crank pulley bolt to loosen. I can't seem to get it to move even with the car in 4th gear and the wheels blocked, I just turn the motor. Our car got a "new" motor once upon a time and it has a bolt for the crank pulley not a nut (a late model change I believe). I have of course sprayed it with penetrant but not yet tried heat. I have read on someone's tech tips to put a breaker bar on it with the end against the ground and bump the starter.... Seems kinda dangerous to me. I would love any suggestions.
Thanks again, Jeff

[lglade]

http://www.fiatspider.com/f15/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13215

[bobplyler]

You don't have to take off the crank pulley unless you are changing the seal. Or the original sheet metal shield is installed. Most people leave it off.

[RRoller123]

It took a chain wrench on the crank pulley (wrapped in old timing belt) with a 4-ft black iron pipe extension bar (Home Depot), held by my strong 19 y/o son, and me on the socket on the crank pulley nut with another iron pipe extension bar. Finally heard a pop and it let go. Must have been on there at 100's of ft-lbs for decades.

[Odoyle]

I used a breaker bar and bump started the motor to loosen it, had no issues. Just remember to tighten it the same way after installation.

[PhillySpider]

5 hours? I can do it in less than an hour. Of course I've done it before.

OK, you or anyone in the Philly area willing to help me out with this? $850 at one shop, $1,100 at another and the only other import mechanic around is the "is what it is" guy who likely just wants to sit on my car for 3 weeks and rape me with a $2,000 bill for all the "needed" work. I'm mechanically inclined, but have never done jack with a car other than change oil, battery and rotate tires. I'm afraid I'll be in sad shape trying this myself as i don't even know what the terminology is or what things look like. Good news is there's a show here on 6/4 and I'm hoping to have some good dialogue with someone who can point around and tell me what's what.

[PhillySpider]

Will host, travel, provide food, beer, help and good humor! One note I'd like input on...one mechanic told me the 1980's have "clearance" that the older models do not, so if the belt breaks nothing will be damaged, I'll just be stranded. He actually said if he were me, he'd just wait for that day. Perhaps he just know's it'd be a much bigger job and he'll get more money from me. 3 people i don't trust...mechanic's, lawyers, dentists.

[RRoller123]

What he means is that the stock 2L engine is a "non-interference engine", meaning that the valves and pistons don't occupy the same space, so if the belt breaks, the valves don't crash into each other or the piston head. Not a good idea to just wait for it to break, might happen when passing a semi at 75 on the freeway. Not good.

[lglade]

Your car may be safe from having a piston hitting a valve, but do you really want to break down on the side of the road? Avoiding that eventuality has to be worth something, and in my case that figure is at least $500. If I miss a day of work or God forbid my wife has a breakdown, then I will end up suffering close to that amount--one way or another.

FWIW, immediately after buying my car (January 2014) I paid a shop about $450 + parts to do the belt change; my seals were in good shape so they didn't have to remove the pulleys to do the work (belt, water pump, and tensioner bearing). So I'm sure that you can find a better deal if you keep looking. Craigslist will likely have some experienced mechanics doing side work, if you really want to pinch pennies. I didn't have a garage of my own at the time, so paying someone to do the work just made sense. But our cars are really pretty straight-forward, and when it comes time to do the next belt I'm going to do the work myself.