Engine Block Drain Line
-
- Posts: 550
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:45 am
- Your car is a: 1982 Spider 2000
- Location: Arvada, Colorado
Engine Block Drain Line
All,
I had a couple of requests for this info after my post on hose clamps yesterday. It let's you drain your block without making a huge mess. And if you look closely, you can see my screwdriver at the bottom of the antifreeze drain pan...
The drain hose thing is pretty easy and remarkabley less messy than the normal process. The key to success is the pipe tap operation(see below).
To do this, you need a few things:
1/8" NPT or NPTF pipe tap - either borrow a good one, or buy one at McMaster Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com), where you will get your other parts. Don't use a crappy one from Harbor Freight. McMaster p/n 2553A12, $23.11.
High pressure braided SS chemical hose, 12", 1/8" NPT fittings - McMaster p/n 4468K131, $12.10
Brass pipe cap, 1/8" NPTF - McMaster p/n 5799T25, $3.19
Cold beer or other adult beverage - Market price
1 - Read this whole post and make sure you understand what is going on. If not sure, go find a friend who "gets it", and have them help you. You only have 1 engine block and we don't want to screw that up.
2 - Remove block drain plug and drain coolant all over the floor. Be happy while cleaning up the mess, as this won't happen next time. You can drink one beer at this point, before your start cleaning up.
3 - No more beer! Chase the treads in the engine block with the pipe tap. This is the tricky part, as the threads in the block are not actually 1/8" NPT. They are a metric (or maybe british) tapered pipe thread with 28 threads per inch, not 27 like the NPT. So what you are doing is re-cutting the threads slightly to the US NPT standard. Because this is a tapered pipe thread, the as the tap goes deeper, you get into new metal to cut treads in. The tricky part is not to run the new tap in too deep, or the fitting on the end of the hose will bottom out before the tapers are able to wedge into each other. If this part doesn't make sense yet, go find that friend who "gets it" before you go any further.
4 - With that said, we are going to put the tap in the threaded hole very carefully by hand to get it started. It should thread in just fine, with almost no resistance; you should be able to to turn the tap several revolutions before you feel resistance. Be absolutely positive the tap is going into the hole straight. The tap should snug up as the tapers start to wedge together. Once together, shoot a little WD-40 into the hole and then start turning the tap in, using a small open end wrench on the square at the end of the tap. If you have room, a tap wrench is better, but you probably won't have the space. Turn the tap about 180 degrees clockwise and then 90 degrees counterclockwise to clear the chips the tap is cutting. Make sure you don't push the tap off-center when turning with the end wrench. Then clockwise again and counterclockwise. Do this until you have progressed about 2 full turns on the tap (put a mark on the tap to keep track). Loosen the tap and remove by hand. Use your shop vac to slurp out any chips in the hole.
5 - Take the hose with the threaded ends and do a test fit of the fitting in the tapped hole. Again, be very careful to line it up straight. It should smoothly thread in several turns before you feel any resistance. Tight up the fitting very HAND TIGHT and see how many threads are still exposed outside the block. There should still be a few (4-5 would be brilliant) exposed. See picture below, I see about 3 threads exposed (after full tightening). If you have more than the picture, tap another turn and check again. Each turn of the tap will be the same as 1 more thread in the block. If you have the number of threads shown in the picture or less exposed. Stop now.
6 - Once you have the hole tapped, put you favorite thread sealant on the end of the hose fitting and screw it into the block. I use Permatex Form-a-Gasket #2, totally old school. You should tighten it up pretty tight, but don't go crazy. Once that end is done, you can put the cap on the other end, also using thread sealant (or put the cap on while the hose is still on your bench). Maybe not so tight, as you'd like to take that end off someday.
7 - Use a couple tie wraps to hold the hose close to the block, so it doesn't flop around. Check for leaks when you fire up the cooling system again.
8 - Now you can have another beer.
I had a couple of requests for this info after my post on hose clamps yesterday. It let's you drain your block without making a huge mess. And if you look closely, you can see my screwdriver at the bottom of the antifreeze drain pan...
The drain hose thing is pretty easy and remarkabley less messy than the normal process. The key to success is the pipe tap operation(see below).
To do this, you need a few things:
1/8" NPT or NPTF pipe tap - either borrow a good one, or buy one at McMaster Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com), where you will get your other parts. Don't use a crappy one from Harbor Freight. McMaster p/n 2553A12, $23.11.
High pressure braided SS chemical hose, 12", 1/8" NPT fittings - McMaster p/n 4468K131, $12.10
Brass pipe cap, 1/8" NPTF - McMaster p/n 5799T25, $3.19
Cold beer or other adult beverage - Market price
1 - Read this whole post and make sure you understand what is going on. If not sure, go find a friend who "gets it", and have them help you. You only have 1 engine block and we don't want to screw that up.
2 - Remove block drain plug and drain coolant all over the floor. Be happy while cleaning up the mess, as this won't happen next time. You can drink one beer at this point, before your start cleaning up.
3 - No more beer! Chase the treads in the engine block with the pipe tap. This is the tricky part, as the threads in the block are not actually 1/8" NPT. They are a metric (or maybe british) tapered pipe thread with 28 threads per inch, not 27 like the NPT. So what you are doing is re-cutting the threads slightly to the US NPT standard. Because this is a tapered pipe thread, the as the tap goes deeper, you get into new metal to cut treads in. The tricky part is not to run the new tap in too deep, or the fitting on the end of the hose will bottom out before the tapers are able to wedge into each other. If this part doesn't make sense yet, go find that friend who "gets it" before you go any further.
4 - With that said, we are going to put the tap in the threaded hole very carefully by hand to get it started. It should thread in just fine, with almost no resistance; you should be able to to turn the tap several revolutions before you feel resistance. Be absolutely positive the tap is going into the hole straight. The tap should snug up as the tapers start to wedge together. Once together, shoot a little WD-40 into the hole and then start turning the tap in, using a small open end wrench on the square at the end of the tap. If you have room, a tap wrench is better, but you probably won't have the space. Turn the tap about 180 degrees clockwise and then 90 degrees counterclockwise to clear the chips the tap is cutting. Make sure you don't push the tap off-center when turning with the end wrench. Then clockwise again and counterclockwise. Do this until you have progressed about 2 full turns on the tap (put a mark on the tap to keep track). Loosen the tap and remove by hand. Use your shop vac to slurp out any chips in the hole.
5 - Take the hose with the threaded ends and do a test fit of the fitting in the tapped hole. Again, be very careful to line it up straight. It should smoothly thread in several turns before you feel any resistance. Tight up the fitting very HAND TIGHT and see how many threads are still exposed outside the block. There should still be a few (4-5 would be brilliant) exposed. See picture below, I see about 3 threads exposed (after full tightening). If you have more than the picture, tap another turn and check again. Each turn of the tap will be the same as 1 more thread in the block. If you have the number of threads shown in the picture or less exposed. Stop now.
6 - Once you have the hole tapped, put you favorite thread sealant on the end of the hose fitting and screw it into the block. I use Permatex Form-a-Gasket #2, totally old school. You should tighten it up pretty tight, but don't go crazy. Once that end is done, you can put the cap on the other end, also using thread sealant (or put the cap on while the hose is still on your bench). Maybe not so tight, as you'd like to take that end off someday.
7 - Use a couple tie wraps to hold the hose close to the block, so it doesn't flop around. Check for leaks when you fire up the cooling system again.
8 - Now you can have another beer.
- RRoller123
- Patron 2020
- Posts: 8179
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:04 pm
- Your car is a: 1980 FI SPIDER 2000
- Location: SAGAMORE BEACH, MA USA
Re: Engine Block Drain Line
Excellent! Great detail, thanks.
'80 FI Spider 2000
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
-
- Patron 2018
- Posts: 1148
- Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:58 pm
- Your car is a: 1979 Fiat Spider
- Location: Montreal Canada
Re: Engine Block Drain Line
Great write up, thanks for sharing! I would assume that outside the US the braided line may come in 28 TPI since a good part of the world is now in metric market? Still a few things here in Canada where we measure in imperial units just so we can trade apples with apples when we free-trade with the US.
-
- Posts: 550
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:45 am
- Your car is a: 1982 Spider 2000
- Location: Arvada, Colorado
Re: Engine Block Drain Line
Hi AriK,
I can't speak to what sort of braided line you might be able to find in Canada. If you order the McMaster part, I know what you'll get.
I bet there are still plenty of US pipe threads floating around up there.
Where are you in Canada? My wife was born in Oshawa, Ontario and my grandparents had a place on a lake near Perry Sound, Ontario.
Kirk
I can't speak to what sort of braided line you might be able to find in Canada. If you order the McMaster part, I know what you'll get.
I bet there are still plenty of US pipe threads floating around up there.
Where are you in Canada? My wife was born in Oshawa, Ontario and my grandparents had a place on a lake near Perry Sound, Ontario.
Kirk
-
- Patron 2018
- Posts: 1148
- Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:58 pm
- Your car is a: 1979 Fiat Spider
- Location: Montreal Canada
Re: Engine Block Drain Line
Ya baby, Parry Sound, home of legend Bobby Orr and the road signage is not shy to overstate that. I've been there! It's cottage country more accessible by Toronto residents, to the north. Still, it's about 7 hours drive from where i live in Montreal Qc.
- KevAndAndi
- Posts: 531
- Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:14 pm
- Your car is a: 1981 Fiat Spider 2000
- Location: Chatham, NJ
Re: Engine Block Drain Line
Thanks for the detailed explanation! Glad it worked out well for you. I think I will pass, though, because I didn't realize it would require cutting threads, and I fear that would end badly for me. It takes a big man to know his limitations.
Kevin
1981 Spider 2000
1981 Spider 2000
- RRoller123
- Patron 2020
- Posts: 8179
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:04 pm
- Your car is a: 1980 FI SPIDER 2000
- Location: SAGAMORE BEACH, MA USA
Re: Engine Block Drain Line
The block threaded hole is not a pipe thread, I am pretty sure? Must be some way to get an appropriate fitting for it without having to cut the threads?
'80 FI Spider 2000
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
- KevAndAndi
- Posts: 531
- Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:14 pm
- Your car is a: 1981 Fiat Spider 2000
- Location: Chatham, NJ
Re: Engine Block Drain Line
Would these work as an adapter?:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#4860k141/=1193483
http://www.mcmaster.com/#4092k11/=1195lnz
Edit: Regardless of how the connection is made at the engine block, there are a couple of other ways to go other than the 12" braided hose that the OP used. One could go with a longer hose and bring it all the way around to the radiator drain cock. That way, both drains would be located in the same place. Another way to go would be a hose-less approach, putting a drain cock right on the engine block. That might make draining only slightly less messy, but it would definitely be easier to have a cock that you open and close, as opposed to a plug that requires a wrench and can get lost.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#4860k141/=1193483
http://www.mcmaster.com/#4092k11/=1195lnz
Edit: Regardless of how the connection is made at the engine block, there are a couple of other ways to go other than the 12" braided hose that the OP used. One could go with a longer hose and bring it all the way around to the radiator drain cock. That way, both drains would be located in the same place. Another way to go would be a hose-less approach, putting a drain cock right on the engine block. That might make draining only slightly less messy, but it would definitely be easier to have a cock that you open and close, as opposed to a plug that requires a wrench and can get lost.
Kevin
1981 Spider 2000
1981 Spider 2000
-
- Posts: 550
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:45 am
- Your car is a: 1982 Spider 2000
- Location: Arvada, Colorado
Re: Engine Block Drain Line
A couple of thoughts:
- It's hard to say if every block has a tapered thread, or if some have a straight thread (hey, it's Italian...). I just know mine was tapered. The taper isn't much, maybe a 0.020" change in diameter over the length of the thread.
- The adapters are a good idea to try. Don't you love how much stuff McMaster has?
- I do a fair amount of machine work, so I was comfortable with tapping the hole, but I agree completely with not trying this if you aren't.
- Let's face it, you have nowhere to go but up, from the original design.
Kirk
- It's hard to say if every block has a tapered thread, or if some have a straight thread (hey, it's Italian...). I just know mine was tapered. The taper isn't much, maybe a 0.020" change in diameter over the length of the thread.
- The adapters are a good idea to try. Don't you love how much stuff McMaster has?
- I do a fair amount of machine work, so I was comfortable with tapping the hole, but I agree completely with not trying this if you aren't.
- Let's face it, you have nowhere to go but up, from the original design.
Kirk
- KevAndAndi
- Posts: 531
- Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:14 pm
- Your car is a: 1981 Fiat Spider 2000
- Location: Chatham, NJ
Re: Engine Block Drain Line
Thanks, Kirk! McMaster certainly is a wonderland of hardware. I may try the adapter, as I'll be draining the coolant before spring. Arguably, yours was the simplest, most elegant approach. One problem with my suggestion of putting a stop cock right on the engine block is that the ones on the McMaster website are rated at 250 degrees F. I don't know exactly how hot that area under the manifold gets, but failure would be an awful price to pay for incremental convenience. Your hose and plug are safer.klweimer wrote:A couple of thoughts:
- It's hard to say if every block has a tapered thread, or if some have a straight thread (hey, it's Italian...). I just know mine was tapered. The taper isn't much, maybe a 0.020" change in diameter over the length of the thread.
- The adapters are a good idea to try. Don't you love how much stuff McMaster has?
- I do a fair amount of machine work, so I was comfortable with tapping the hole, but I agree completely with not trying this if you aren't.
- Let's face it, you have nowhere to go but up, from the original design.
Kirk
Kevin
1981 Spider 2000
1981 Spider 2000
- RRoller123
- Patron 2020
- Posts: 8179
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:04 pm
- Your car is a: 1980 FI SPIDER 2000
- Location: SAGAMORE BEACH, MA USA
Re: Engine Block Drain Line
Agree with you about the tapered thread. I have no experience or skill to cut that. But I did measure the drain PLUG itself this afternoon, and it is #M10x1.0 thread, non-tapered. This is from a 1981 2L block.
This whole idea is one of the cleverest things to come up on the forum in a long time. Klweimer, you deserve many kudos for coming up with the idea! Brilliant!
I did a little digging, and this may be an alternate approach that might bear merit. I will look into it. Should work fine for hot engine coolant.
http://ezoildrainvalve.com/
This one will fit an M10x1.0:
EZ125 with 5mm Drain hole and L-001 extension. Takes 3/8" hose.
http://ezoildrainvalve.com/size-chart.html
Pete
This whole idea is one of the cleverest things to come up on the forum in a long time. Klweimer, you deserve many kudos for coming up with the idea! Brilliant!
I did a little digging, and this may be an alternate approach that might bear merit. I will look into it. Should work fine for hot engine coolant.
http://ezoildrainvalve.com/
This one will fit an M10x1.0:
EZ125 with 5mm Drain hole and L-001 extension. Takes 3/8" hose.
http://ezoildrainvalve.com/size-chart.html
Pete
'80 FI Spider 2000
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
- KevAndAndi
- Posts: 531
- Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:14 pm
- Your car is a: 1981 Fiat Spider 2000
- Location: Chatham, NJ
Re: Engine Block Drain Line
Pete,
Your find is also brilliant! What a cool gadget - literally perfect for the application.
I also have a 1981 FI and I presume the engine to be original, so I should have the same size block drain hole as yours. I will check though, whenever I get around to draining the coolant this winter.
Thanks!
Edit: I can't seem to find the EZ-125 listed for actual sale. It's listed as one of the sizes, but it's not available at any of the websites I checked. By the way, the valve looks to be about a $24 item.
Your find is also brilliant! What a cool gadget - literally perfect for the application.
I also have a 1981 FI and I presume the engine to be original, so I should have the same size block drain hole as yours. I will check though, whenever I get around to draining the coolant this winter.
Thanks!
Edit: I can't seem to find the EZ-125 listed for actual sale. It's listed as one of the sizes, but it's not available at any of the websites I checked. By the way, the valve looks to be about a $24 item.
Kevin
1981 Spider 2000
1981 Spider 2000
- RRoller123
- Patron 2020
- Posts: 8179
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:04 pm
- Your car is a: 1980 FI SPIDER 2000
- Location: SAGAMORE BEACH, MA USA
Re: Engine Block Drain Line
It may be that they are just getting started, or just keep little inventory.
Adapter in that case makes sense.
Pete
Adapter in that case makes sense.
Pete
'80 FI Spider 2000
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
-
- Posts: 550
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:45 am
- Your car is a: 1982 Spider 2000
- Location: Arvada, Colorado
Re: Engine Block Drain Line
I'm glad people like the drain line idea. I think it's all about thinking out of the box. I'm working on a gizmo to drain the radiator more neatly as well...
Kirk
Kirk
- RRoller123
- Patron 2020
- Posts: 8179
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:04 pm
- Your car is a: 1980 FI SPIDER 2000
- Location: SAGAMORE BEACH, MA USA
Re: Engine Block Drain Line
That would also be a nice improvement! It would be great if it worked well with the engine splash guard left in place. Taking that thing off is a pain and requires the front air dam to come off too.
'80 FI Spider 2000
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle