OK, so here's my 1978 build...

[Jerosmith]

Hello, I'm trying to build my 1.8 litre over the course of the next year. Some questions I have ;

1) I obviously would very much like to use my existing head. It is the one with all the smog stuff on it, but I'll be promptly taking that off. So my question is, can they still be performance heads once I change out the valves guides, springs, and port and Polish? Or is a new head needed?

2) I'm ordering forged autorikambi 10:1 pistons or as close as I can get to that number, I might have the pistons made to be slightly less than 10:1 just to be safe as I want to be able to run premium pump gas.

3) I have real, made in Italy 44idf Weber's but lack linkages... Can someone point me in the right direction for that? I can't seem to find it.

4) WHERE DO YOU GET PERFORMANCE CONNECTION RODS FOR THE 1.8 LITRE??? honestly, the only place I can find a price list is guy croft and his connection rods are 900 British pounds!!! That's $1800 in Canadian funds, which... Is a lot! Does anyone know where to get off the shelf performance connection rods for this motor? Or, alternatively, does anyone have experience with custom connection rod manufacturers? And if you do, any chance you would know the dimensions of my connection rods so that I CAN have them made... And for considerably less than guy crofts. I mean, I could have custom forged aluminum rods for much less than 1800 from what I see online.

That's all the questions I have for now... Everything else seems to be reddily available for this car and it's engine. Those connection rods tho.. I've been searching for days.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[RRoller123]

I am also very much interested in the answers you get to your question #4.

Doing the same thing, building up (slowly) a street 2L engine, Basically: high nines CR, performance head, mid range cam and cam gears, keep FI, keep 4-2-1. hotter spark, add test pipe.

My take is there is no need for performance rods, and I plan to just have the existing one's polished longitudinally. There won't be enough power generated to really require them. I know absolutely nothing about this aspect of rods, although the advice I have been receiving (from a Shelby/Cobra/Boss 302 builder) is to work the existing rods in this method. The polishing alignment of any micro surface abrasions longitudinally makes sense. I get that part.

I hope the experienced engine gurus here let us know what they think.

Pete

[baltobernie]

Hello, I'm trying to build my 1.8 litre over the course of the next year. Some questions I have ...

IMO, the first thing you should nail down is the camshaft, not mentioned in your post. It's the "brain" of an engine, and it's profile(s) determine the static compression ratio possible, as well as the proper carburetion setup. If you were, for example, to use stock cams with stock 1800 head and 10:1 CR pistons, you would go thru head gaskets like Kleenex. Google "dynamic compression ratio" to get a better understanding of this.

Your questions:
1. You or your machinist must use caution when porting Fiat TC heads. The Guy Croft video should be your benchmark. Remember that in a street engine, velocity is more important than CFM.

3. Did you check WeberCarbsDirect?

4. Not necessary. Leave 'em stock.

Lastly ... I spent a lot of time and money building a street 1800, and ended up with about the same HP as a well-running 2L.



My advice to you and everyone else looking to increase the performance of 1438-1756cc Fiat engines is to find a good used 2L motor, drop it in and go have fun. After driving this for a while and you still want more, you can warm up the 2L with mild cams and more fuel/exhaust for another 15-25 HP. Beyond that, you'll need structural and safety mods to the car.

One of the guys in our club has a bone-stock 2L; never opened. Only mods are twin IDF's on a waffle manifold and improved exhaust. Plus it is tuned by a real expert. The car will probably outrun 95% of the cars owned by this forum.

[narfire]

I have a 1800 block on an engine stand that has been "boiled" and honed. For sale if you want to build it while still running your car and stock engine. The crank is around somewhere as well. I could pull a head off a 75 if required.
Reading posts here over the years the topic of the high dome pistons (if they are the 10:1) have come up several times. Personally from the info provided I'd likely go with a smaller dome piston and shave a bit off the head to bump compression. The 1800 head is just fine, you can block off the 4 air? holes with plugs.
As mentioned look into a set of cams and definitely adjustable cam gears to let the cams work properly. Shave the flywheel.
If the pistons are oversized, take the pistons, crank, and block in and have the whole works balanced properly after re-bore.
As mentioned the stock rods are fine in my opinion.
Contact at okcustomcut@telus.net if required.
Chris

[Jerosmith]

I'm gonna get hot street or auto cross cams, that was definitely on the list. Also. I'm looking to have my car do the 8000rpm thing. So you guys sure about the stock rods? I'm gonna buy that distributerless ignition as well. I'm also going to be building my own custom stainless headers to go on the car. If I find its too difficult, I'll buy marks stepper header. Also, another reason I want to build up my 1800 is because apparently the shorter block revs better than the long stroke of the 2L. Makes sense to me....

I'll do the flywheel as well eventually. And I DO plan on beefing up what I can structurally while I've got the car in pieces. Eventually it will get all new coil springs all around.

I really don't want to sacrifice anything for cost... If I need to save up. I need to save up. So be it.

So, after hot cams, pistons, idfs, lightened flywheel, distributerless ignition, and the head reworked for performance, you guys say the stock connecting rods would be fine? I'd rather get new, forged aluminum if I can... That way I know the car wont destroy itself at 8000rpm.

If you guys still think the rods are fine. I'll leave them in and save a lot of money. But if you're wrong and a rod ends up going thru my block, I'm gonna be pissed. Lol.

[narfire]

You might try Geo Clemente on Kingsway regarding the forged rods or Fred and or Mario DelPario in Edmonton (Ital motors).
Both have built and raced these cars many years ago. Fred still hill-climbs his GT Junior. They might/ should have some insight on rods for your car or perhaps might be lucky enough to source some from Italy?
Clemente's auto 604 568-0491
Ital Motors 780 424-5210
Mario might/ sometimes still has performance parts for these cars kicking around.
Good luck.
Chris

[baltobernie]

I'll do the flywheel as well eventually ...

If you're going to purchase or lighten a flywheel, you should do it at the time of the engine build. Every rotating part, including crank pulley and clutch, should be balanced, particularly if you're going well beyond the factory redline. Balancing was one thing that I really noticed with my build. The shifter is motionless at any RPM.

If finished cost is not a priority, why not simply buy all the bits from Guy or Mark or Matt or Csaba. They each have lots of experience with these engines, and know what works. If you're going alone, or buying parts from several suppliers, be prepared to budget $1k+ for dyno time alone. This doesn't include replacing what doesn't work with your unique setup with what might.

[Jerosmith]

I'd gladly buy everything I can from Mark or guy... It was actually my plan to buy from Mark, and what I can't get from Mark, buy from autoricambi gc parts. If mark stumbles upon this, could you offer me some sort of package deal? The way I look at it, I'll be spending anywhere from 3000-5000 on the engine alone and plan on getting suspension in the next couple years as well among other things. May be mutually beneficial?

[So Cal Mark]

contact me directly and we'll suggest a package and price it for you. The more you can purchase at one time will allow us more flexibility

[ebrown0104]

If I'm looking at your dyno correctly, your built 1800 is putting out 100hp and 105tq? Isn't a Euro-spec 1800 rated at 120hp? I know that's gross vs. net and crank vs. wheel, but still, that just doesn't make any sense.

I guess I'll find out soon enough, as I'm building a fairly hot 1800 right now (4.5 dome pistons, 40/80 cams, oversize valves and a mild port, light flywheel and crank pulley, balanced, 32/36 DFEV, 2.25" exhaust).

[baltobernie]

Yes, you will find out soon enough. Please post your dyno numbers once you've got 'er dialed in. RWHP on this particular dyno is about 85% of SAE net, so my engine approaches 120 HP. There's been specmanship in automotive advertising since they got rid of the horse.

With all the hype and advertising surrounding the aftermarket auto parts industry, we sometimes forget that auto engineers have tools, equipment and other resources unmatched by outsiders. I vividly remember a motorsports TV episode filmed at Ducati. They fiddled and tweaked with several port and piston designs, EFI mapping and even blew up a few motors. At the end, they were thrilled to improve the model by something like 2 HP.

The 2L motor I mentioned in my post will leave me in the mirror under any driving circumstance. And he has a 3.58 rear axle.