My folly - supercharged megasquirt 2L TC or die trying

[timinator]

I never worry, and I didn't say anything is unknowable. Sorry about trying to help. Won't happen again.

[TimpanogosSlim]

I just mean, well, you said:

With a running car you will get a better understanding of what it takes to make the engine you are looking for. With prototype engines the problem is that "you don't know enough to know what you don't know". After the engine is running you will see where you can or cannot place the up-grade components you are planning.

I'm pretty sure that aside from physical placement of the supercharger, I do know enough.

The lancia intake manifold has been done. we've seen pictures of it in a fiat spider linked off this thread.

DSM CAS will absolutely fit where the cambox dizzy fits. It's no larger in diameter and substantially shorter than the dizzy cap.

Injectors and fuel rail are all about the same size, largely due to the fact that there are only two injector vendors, and one of them licenses their tech from the other.

Sensors aren't what you'd call big. Wiring loom goes wherever it goes.

With some basic measurements of the engine compartment applied to a run stand, I can get a good idea of whether stuff like the supercharger will physically fit.

For example, it''s only a few inches wider and taller than a smog pump. It could conceivably mount up top over the exhaust manifold. Or low, under it. It might even fit under the intake manifold. This particular SC is so small it's cute. Due to the short nose, it'll have to sit relatively far forward. Shouldn't be a big deal. Admittedly a Lysholm would be even smaller, but i don't have one.

A rack of LS coils might actually fit between the intake plenum on the lancia manifold and the intake cambox. Tight fit tho. And it will be much easier to test that on a stand than in a car.

Even if i had the L-Jet system, very little of it is compatible with megasquirt.

The injectors weren't very good and they are low-Z so I'd have to put resistors on them and they might not even fire properly. I might have to build an outboard circuit with larger transistors to fire them.

The barn-door air meter has no support in megasquirt. It's just an air restriction. I need a MAP sensor and/or MAF sensor.

The TPS in the l-jet system is a switch rather than a potentiometer, so it has to go.

The L-Jet o2 sensor is a narrowband unit, so it has to go.

I *might be able to use the original water temperature sensor. Assuming it isn't just a switch (I'm not sure).

MAP and IAT sensors are required, so I'd have to find somewhere to put them on the intake plenum.

The idle air solenoid would actually work, I think.

I could use the original electronic ignition, and i might use it (or a points ignition) initially.

[TimpanogosSlim]

I just mean, an incremental upgrade is an impossibility.

Unless those increments are (1) entire EFI system, (2) entire ignition system, (3) forced induction.

[TimpanogosSlim]

Here's a picture of a Previa supercharger:



The throttle body attaches at the top right there. This SC can be mounted at any angle.

[burgandy81]

Any progress?

[TimpanogosSlim]

Well, i finally got my sister's stupid car to a condition where i handed it back to her, so i don't have that project hanging over me anymore.

Never volunteer to perform an engine swap in a vehicle you don't already specifically know inside and out.

Now i just need to service the starter in my land cruiser, and some perform some maintenance on the GTI, and get the 1.6TD jetta on the road again, and . . . .

But yeah i need to strip the block down the rest of the way and have the machine shop clean and blueprint - tell me if i need to bore the cylinders, make sure the rods and crank are straight and round, make sure the deck is flat, etc.

Then i will know if the next step involves spending a lot of money on pistons or not.

[toplessexpat]

I've enjoyed this thread enormously. A lot of sensible thinking. I've got an old saying wrt to thinking things through right - it's called the 7Ps. "Piss Poor Planning Prevents Proper Project Performance". I too had a hankering for an aftermarket forced induction set up, and acquired a fair number of the parts to do it (including the intake manifolds). I really like the FI flavor you're bringing to this though. Keep it up - and I'm going to be reading your results.

Enjoy the holidays..

A

[TimpanogosSlim]

Thanks for the encouragement. I wish i'd gotten more done prior to this.

apropos of nothing, I bet there is an off-the-ebay MAF adapter that will either bolt right up to where the throttle body would have been on the lancia intake manifold, or will bolt up with some new holes drilled in it's flange. Added to the list to take measurements and figure out. Would solve that particular plumbing question. The difficulty is that most of them don't have a bead on them, so one would have to be added somehow or hoses would just keep coming off. OTOH, it could just be the basis for welded intake plumbing.

[toplessexpat]

I'm speculating now, and joining up two separate threads that I've had running in my head for months.

- Thread one is when I was thinking about doing forced induction (hence the acquisition of the intake manifold etc.), and I was wondering about what carb to put on it.

- Thread two is my various considerations of playing around with NOS etc, and I found some VW guys who add NOS jets to the base of IDF carbs... and also use a 44 IDF as a throttle body and fit gas injectors to the base... actually - for wet NOS they're fitting dual duty jets that dump gas and nos to the bottom of the carb.

Anyway... bringing these together... why not simply get a carb with the right base pattern and make it up into a throttle body with injectors?

... and with that, I'm off back to the eggnog..

[TimpanogosSlim]

I have a great deal of respect for the hydraulic engineering prowess that makes carburetors work.

I just don't really want them.

[toplessexpat]

That's my point.

You use the structure of the Carb to create the throttle body for your injector...

Take a look at foxinjection.com

Here's some of the VW crew doing this http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=290618

... and here's some weber IDF based bodies http://kms.vankronenburg.nl/products/th ... aidf-body/

Those KMS ones look like you could fab a nice plate to the top, creating a sealed unit through into the SC....

Make sense?

A

[toplessexpat]

Aha!

http://www.carburetion.com/Weber/wild4cylinjection.asp

[TimpanogosSlim]

oh, i see.

no nitrous plans at this point, though.

I have the previa throttle body, which bolts to the inlet on the supercharger. I've been advised that putting the tb ahead of the sc is normal, but i don't claim to fully understand why.

I may do water/methanol injection at some point, but that could go pretty much anywhere after the tb. Injecting water before the sc might help keep it cool? *shrug*. For the purposes of cooling the intake air, earlier is better. if you just want to increase the effective octane, port injection is very popular.

[toplessexpat]

but couldn't you use these just for gas...i.e. just for your injectors?

[TimpanogosSlim]

Many projects and distractions have pulled rank over the last several months but the latest is that i have acquired a new spider.

The body has some rust but nothing like the cancer that riddles my '77. Just surface rust. Some of it even deep surface rust - but nothing rotting through that i can find.

It was an ivory or cream shade originally, but some previous owner decided that it was too attractive and had it sprayed poo brown. Not even metal flake - just brown and clear.

Ergo, this is now Operation Turdpolish.

The cowl is a bit punched in, passenger side outside handle is broken off, wing window frames are cracked at the top.

I got some slightly pitted handles for $8/ea at a local boneyard, as well as an undented cowl and a pair of 1981 wing windows.

It's an automatic, and will get swapped back to manual. The 3.58 rear end will come in handy i hope.