Super Spiders

[Mattt123]

Has anybody seen one of these in person? They look really nice.

http://roadstersalon.com/models/

[DieselSpider]

Have not seen one myself however most of the cars they have listed on Classic Cars seem pretty nice and are claimed to be full restorations with the bodies media blasted and all suspension and brake items replaced along with full rebuilds on the drive line components. Prices are high but they do just about give you a new car from top to bottom.

http://classiccars.com/listings/view/51 ... nois-60008

There is a member here that appears to have purchased a number of cars from them and gives them a good rating:
http://www.fiatspider.com/f15/viewtopic ... 13&t=24254

Here is their (Roadster Salons) comment on that thread:

"Roadster Salon would like to thank the Fiat Spider community for their interest in our cars, and constructive comments about our work. We sincerely appreciate the feedback. Restoring spiders is our passion. Our production team spends hundreds of hours of labor into each phase of production. Italian cars in general are imperfect, and ours are no different. We constantly strive to improve the quality of our product. To that end, we are proud to say that every spider we restore is better than the one that came before it. Roadster Salon"

[spiderrey]

I would go look real close at the car before purchase. talked to someone who was very disappointed. Saw a couple cars that didnt meet the hype. Even if they were perfect, which they are not thats alot of money for a spider.

[zachmac]

Here is my $0.02 worth knowing that that is about what it's worth.

BTW, if someone gives me " a penny for your thoughts" and I "give them my two cents worth" who gets the other penny? Probably the government!

At the risk of offending people who have bought these cars, you can not make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

I have been blessed to be able to own over a 100 different collector / fun cars in my life and some have been very valuable and some have been dirt cheap. The most money I profited from a car was a 1962 Ferrari 250 GTE that was in need of absolutely everything. Sold it for $115k in the early eighties when they were first going crazy price wise. On the other hand, I spent seven years of my own available time and labor, and over $85k to others, to produce a concours winning 1970 SII E-type roadster that, after winning the Southeastern regional councours award, I was able to sell for just over $80k.

What does this have to do with these Spiders?

First, it will cost every penny that these guys are charging to have someone else restore / rebuild a car to better than factory specifications. I know first hand the hundreds of man hours you can spend doing it. I do not doubt for a second that they are working on relatively thin profit margins.

BUT, what you end up with is a car that you paid much more for than it is (or probably ever will be) worth. All of the auction houses, car sales guys, etc. will tell you, "buy what you like and buy the best car you can afford". But if you decide to spend $30k restoring your dad's old slant six Plymouth, God bless you, but it's still a slant six Plymouth.

Cars are graded in the collector market based on three key factors: desirability, rarity, and condition / originality. The Spiders, while desirable, are far from rare as they were "mass produced" cars in the collector world. They are at best B level collectibles and more likely C's, fun to own, cheap, and easy to get parts for and work on. But they aren't and never will be Ferraris, Jaguars or Porsches. They may climb to a solid B collectible category but they'll never be in the A rank (that's true for 90% of all cars). That's why the A's are A's.

All that said, if you want a perfect Spider (better than new which is true of almost all truly bare metal, ground up restorations of cars manufactured in that period), and you cannot do it yourself, these prices seem fair. Just don't fool yourself into thinking the market for resale is any larger than guys just like you.

Lastly, note above that one of the factors that determines value is originality. Several years ago (or maybe a few decades now) the A list collectors started valuing original over restored. As the saying goes, you can restore a car over and over, they are only original once.

[So Cal Mark]

If the car will never experience the extremely high prices in the collector market, make the car like you want it and don't worry that much about originality. The improved driving experience is worth the effort.
If you watch the auctions lately, resto mods and clones are bringing good prices since they update/upgrade the driving experience. While it may seem romantic to get out and hand-crank your horseless carriage in the rain, an electric starter will spoil you quickly

[DieselSpider]

Check out the prices of what it would cost you to buy a clunker spider and then pay someone to completely strip it down to the bare shell, media blast it, weld repair all the metal with problems, prime and paint it. Afterwards add in the cost of have a race shop check out the engine and transmission, replace the suspension/brake components, redo the upholstery along with the top, rewire it, ensure everything is working, replace the consoles and then finish reassembling the car. It will probably be about $40,000 or so and not a full restoration so there is still the possibility of problems cropping up with the engine and transmission or one of the electrical items.

Add custom leather and a more Ferrari like interior and having a Race Shop rebuild the engine along with the transmission/differential and your coming up to their next level of service.

Its only worth what you value the amount of time you would spend on doing it yourself is worth to you and still will be a restored 40 or so year old car.

[spider2081]

I give Roadster salon credit for taking the risk, building the cars to order and finding a market that was not seen by many. I saw a couple of their cars and they are well done. I hope Roadster salon is here to stay and there will continue to be folks who want a smart looking reliable car at any price. One of my short comings is I tend to put the cost before everything and miss the joy of having something I want.

[TX82FIAT]

I think there is a happy medium for Spider ownership and collectors. A frame off restore is certainly nice. Keeping everything original is nice as well. However, I'm with Mark. Do what you want with your car. Well, almost do what you want. Don't drop a V-8 in it and have it come out like FrankenSpider. Some very successful V8 and V6 conversions that I admire very much. However, for every well done conversion there are several that just destroy the car. With that said. Do what you want. Some of the modern technology and upgrades beyond factory make the car more drivable and in my opinion enjoyable. The 95 amp alternator, a new stereo, distrubutorless ignition systems, headlight relays and much more. If someone developed a new ignition switch that plugged into where the old ignition switch attaches with a relays and other improvements I would most likely buy it. Would you? So, an all original frame up restoration on a Spider will look great. Are you going to drive the car? Where will your ownership experience be in 10 years if you want to drive the car and not get your hands dirty?

Do what you want and keep the car on the road and reliable as possible to fully enjoy ownership. I've often thought of getting a spare after my youngest graduates college so I can turn one into an electric vehicle. Waiting on time and battery technology. An electric spider might not have the range... But is certainly would be a super spider from an acceleration standpoint turning a few heads at the track.