Won't Start

[ralphcap]

I didn't drive my '81 2000 FI Spider for the last two months due to high temperatures and humidity. While I had it in storage (my garage) I did a complete front brake job including rebuilding the calipers. Yesterday evening I started it up for a test drive. It started right up and after some rumbling and coughing it smoothed out so I backed it out the driveway and headed down the street. The brakes worked fine but when I got to an intersection about two blocks away the engine died and I was unable to restart it. It just sits there and cranks away but won't start. I changed the fuel filter this morning but it still just cranks and cranks. Any suggestions. Fuel, electrical etc. The fuel pump is fairly new.

[azruss]

Go through Brad's FI diagnostics. I would look at the idle air on the throttle body for a start.

[ralphcap]

AZruss. Thanks, "look at the idle air" More specifically are you talking about Section 5.10.2 Ile Speed Setting in Brad's book?

[76was124]

You might first want to see if it's a 'no start' due to no fuel, or due to no spark.

Either pull a spark plug and crank to see if while the plug threads are touching grounded metal, do you see it spark? Or if it's easier to try it with an extra spark plug if you have one, so you don't have to remove one.

However, my favorite quick test is to remove the air intake boot at the throttle plate enough to spray starter fluid in, then put the boot back, tighten and then crank.

If it fires up and dies with the starter fluid, then I would make sure your getting fuel to the injectors. If you are, do you have bad gas? Two months, and high humidity could be water in the tank especially if the tank wasn't full while it sat. Water is heavier than gas, so it sits at the bottom of the tank, and your short trip probably drove it far enough to burn off the good fuel in the lines before sucking the bad.

[gudtimer41]

This just happened to me, but (blush) with a garden tractor. Engine started, ran for a short time and then died. Try loosening the gas cap and see if it runs. If it does, then the tank venting is bad and you might need a new cap.

[So Cal Mark]

pretty common for the injectors to stick after sitting with the fuel that's available these days

[ralphcap]

Thanks to everyone who has responded. I'm going crazy because my diagnostic skills are mostly nonexistent. Not to mention the fact that I'm retired and my driving season has finally started....it's 64 degrees with low humidity today. First, I know the fuel pump is working cause I took the fuel line off between the fuel pump and the filter while my wife engaged the ignition I sprayed myself with gasoline! Duh! Then I used the two suggested steps mentioned above. I have spark to the plugs and spraying starter fluid into throttle body did nothing. I checked and tightened all hoses. Should I check to see if fuel is getting to the injectors? If so how do I accomplish that task. I'm scared to remove the injectors but I will if I have to. I use ethanol free 93 octane gas in my Spider. Help! Desperate to get on the road!

[76was124]

.... I have spark to the plugs and spraying starter fluid into throttle body did nothing.

Unusual that you did not get ignition (combustion) of the starter fluid if you have spark considering the car ran a couple months ago? It didn't even sputter for a second or two? Did you open the throttle body when you sprayed in the starter fluid? Also depress the gas pedal when cranking.

Was the spark tested with an extra plug, or with one from the engine?

Based on what you say the test results were, then it points a a problem with timing, or lack of compression due to maybe a stuck valve?

You didn't adjust the distributor or timing belt did you? Or swap plug wires?

[ralphcap]

OK, I opened the throttle body, and sprayed starting fluid into the throttle body then engaged the ignition while pressing the accelerator. It ran for about 5-6 seconds versus the 2-3 seconds when not using the starting fluid.

[bradartigue]

Ralph,

Sounds like an ignition problem, as in no signal from the distributor to the ECU. But you have to tell me first if you get a spark when you crank it:

Do you get a spark from the plugs? Use a timing light or remove and ground a plug (if you don't know how to do this you can shock the piss out of yourself, so ask first if you don't). If you get a spark then put the thing back in.

Report back...

[76was124]

Brad,
Buried in one of the earlier posts of the thread he stated:

I have spark to the plugs

It fires and runs until the starter fluid burns off....so no Colds Start or Main injectors passing fuel. So no injector pulses as you said? Unless all the injectors are stuck ( unlikely) or he's pumping water.

[ralphcap]

OK, I removed two spark plugs ,first the one closest to the radiator and then one that is one away from the firewall. Both had spark.

[bmorgan5]

I'm going to give this thread a bump - 'cause I'm having the same problem. Interestingly enough, I also live 90 miles from Mr. Ralph. I don't think that has anything to do with, but it is interesting.

But I have also pulled my injectors and cleaned/tested them. I have a new fuel pump and new regulator. No matter what I consider, I just keep going back to - the plugs don't smell like gas. I have a brand new tank of premium gas. So if I'm getting gas to the rail, blown air through the rail, cleaned each injector, and checked that I'm getting pulse (with a noid tester), what else could it be? It runs on starter fluid (for a few seconds), so it it should at LEAST try to start, but I'm getting nothing.

Any thoughts? Wish Brad hadn't left Baton Rouge...

[bradartigue]

I'm going to give this thread a bump - 'cause I'm having the same problem. Interestingly enough, I also live 90 miles from Mr. Ralph. I don't think that has anything to do with, but it is interesting.

But I have also pulled my injectors and cleaned/tested them. I have a new fuel pump and new regulator. No matter what I consider, I just keep going back to - the plugs don't smell like gas. I have a brand new tank of premium gas. So if I'm getting gas to the rail, blown air through the rail, cleaned each injector, and checked that I'm getting pulse (with a noid tester), what else could it be? It runs on starter fluid (for a few seconds), so it it should at LEAST try to start, but I'm getting nothing.

Any thoughts? Wish Brad hadn't left Baton Rouge...

Are you in BTR? I'm there frequently enough to drop by - shoot me an email and I'll let you know.

If you have fuel in the rail and it is under pressure and the injectors have a pulse then you have to be spraying gas, or your injectors are all stuck (doubtful). With the plugs out and the engine starting you can see the fuel in the plug holes, it usually causes a mist over the motor after a few turns. So....well, I don't know. I doubt you have fuel pressure in the rail if you aren't getting fuel to pulsing injectors. You have to at least eliminate this as a source. Remove the fuel rail and put jars under the injectors and crank the motor, if they spray into the jars, they work. You can usually remove just one of them and do this, like #1...I think it is even in the shop manual as a test procedure.

During start-up everything fires, so all four injectors (five if it is cold) will fire no matter what the AFM is doing or anything else. If that isn't working then it's real basic, power, fuel, or ECU.

[76was124]

I'm going to give this thread a bump - 'cause I'm having the same problem. Interestingly enough, I also live 90 miles from Mr. Ralph. I don't think that has anything to do with, but it is interesting.

But I have also pulled my injectors and cleaned/tested them. I have a new fuel pump and new regulator. No matter what I consider, I just keep going back to - the plugs don't smell like gas. I have a brand new tank of premium gas. So if I'm getting gas to the rail, blown air through the rail, cleaned each injector, and checked that I'm getting pulse (with a noid tester), what else could it be? It runs on starter fluid (for a few seconds), so it it should at LEAST try to start, but I'm getting nothing.

Any thoughts? Wish Brad hadn't left Baton Rouge...

So just to be sure I understand
1. With starter fluid it runs until it burns off, so you have spark
2. You have pulses at the Fuel injectors electrical connections.
3. You tested the fuel injectors and they spray? Tested with air?

Is your fuel pump running when you open the AFM flap and have ignition switched to run?

If you hear it running, any chance you have the two wires to the fuel pump backwards, from when you put in the new pump? Backwards wires have the pump running in reverse ?