2000 engine vs 1400

[SteveLandry]

I am restoring a 1970 124 Spider which I have owned since nearly new.

I have 2 1400 engines and one fuel injected 2000 out of a 1981 (I think).

My question is, should I put the 2L engine in the car, w/o the FI, or stick with the 1400. The FI is damaged, though I did get another unit with the engine, and the car is a '70, so sticking it in there would be problematic.

I haven't decided which way to go, and either engine would require freshening up, at a minimum.

The car is not going to be a faithful restoration, but not quite a restomod either.

Soooo, your Comments and opinions are appreciated.

Steve in Phoenix

[So Cal Mark]

carburate the 2L

[bradartigue]

I find the 1400 to be a very enjoyable engine. It lacks the torque of the 2000, but the 2000 lacks the free revving energy of the 1400. I do not find either engine to be particularly limiting in any way. I like that the 1400 has the block mounted distributor and there is no interference with the flat hood.

My personal opinion is there is nothing special about a 2000, there is a lot special about a 1438. The "artist's intent" so to speak.

[spiderdan]

I'm with Brad on this.
I love my old 1438 and I drive it hard. It's got 160,000 miles, leaks a bit and burns a bit but it has never let me down. It has more than enough power to get me in trouble with the law. (once had her up to 95Mph but ran out of road)
She isn't the fastest of the start but I like to think of her as a sports car and not a race car. My mechanic (Canadan) keeps wanting to sell me a 2000 for it and says I would love the torque. But then again, my mechanic loves my money.

I do like it when I'm at an Italian car show/parade and fellow enthusiasts look under the hood and spot the original motor. Not many 1438 left running out there.
Good luck Steve, do what you want, don't look back and have fun with it no matter what you decide.

[azruss]

years ago i stuffed a 2L carbed in a 70. I loved the conversion. As others have stated, each motor has its advantages. The small motor is a free reving motor with very little low end. If your desire is to spend your driving time shifting up and down and working hard to pull hills, the original motor is for you. At the other end, the 2L is a nice torquey motor with good pull up to 5K rpms, will pull hills without having to shift down twice, but lacks that sense of urgency you get from a 1438.
The conversion itself is very doable. It will fit under a flat hood just fine, even with the dizzy up top. You will get a little rub between the hood center rib and the timing belt cover, but nothing more than removing a little paint. I did change the clutch and bellhousing to the bigger motors. (had a 71-1600cc donor car). I rejetted the original carb and intake manifold. Also used the original 4-2-1 manifold. As I recall, some machining had to be done to plug some ports in the big motor. Nothing serious. The only issues was the 70 had a short radiator with a full body plate below it. This limits the amount of air coming in. I never tried the 2L with the old radiator so don't know if it would work or not. I modified the unibody to accept a bigger radiator when i did the motor swap.

[SteveLandry]

The car now has a small bubble hood. The flat one was tweaked on one side and did not match the fender lines. Plus, I like the small bubble hood better. I also removed the huge sidelights - along with probably a full trash can's worth of rust.

I bought the car in Columbus, GA and drove it in Europe for three years in the early 70's. While there, I put Koni shocks on it (they are still good!), a tube exhaust header and a euro intake manifold - the four tube one, not the big flat one it came with.

I'm pretty sure I had it up to over 110 on the autobahn coming out of Stuttgart, though it was on a long gentle downhill. I never felt the car was under powered, although I had moved up from an MGA, and felt I was in tall cotton.

Do y'all have any carburetor recommendations? I wasn't real impressed with the stock one, and a vendor felt the twin IDFs were too much carb for a stock engine.

[spiderrey]

I have a 70'. It had a 1438 when I bought it from the original owner. I got bored with that motor real fast. Not much get up and go. I dropped in a built 2 liter block with an 1800 head. It really woke that car up. Made driving a blast. Im still running the stock 70 radiator with no overheating issues. Easiest swap in the world. Its the same motor, just bigger. You just need the bigger bell housing.

[Frog2Spider]

Yo Mark,
Would you explain your recommendation here to 'carburate the 2L'

Performance advantages over FI?

And

What carbs would you suggest?

I have a 2L FI that runs great. Just wondering if a 'carb job' would somehow make it even better.

[BEEK]

dual 40 idf's are not to much for a stock engine, fiat did not think so as they put them on a stock engine! the only major difference between a dual idf 1608 and a 2.0 is the compression ratio. besides cubic inch. a 34dmsa or even a 34adf or a 36adl all are good choices for a single carb on a stock 2.0. the only recommendation to alot of fun on the 2.0 is higher compression pistons, they really wake the engine up. I raced 1608's 1756, and 1995 fiat motors. i never felt a 2.0l was a slow revving engine. it performs well and revs fine. granted not as freely as a 1438 or a 1608. but to the daily driver i dont feel you will ever notice the difference and the torque difference will be noticed immediately. this is my .02 worth, your milage and opionons may vary!

[Frog2Spider]

Thanks for the info, Beek. It doesn't sound as though the expense is worth the gain in a stock engine. I know that to wake any engine up, one must collectively consider the big 3. Intake air, fuel and exhaust.

[SteveLandry]

Just an update to my original posts.

The 2L engine was in fine shape except for the water jacket in the block being clogged with rust. After chemically derusting the block, the cylinders were slightly etched, so the machinist recommended boring to the next size up. He was concerned the rings might not seal completely. After honing one cylinder, I agreed with him and we bored it. That was the only thing it needed, though we did balance it. New standard bearings throughout, polished the crank and did a valve job.

Oh. wait. Just one more thing. The engine was out of a car I bought from Goodwill Industries for $450.00. The oil pan was badly dented, and it appeared to have a new oil pump. I fixed the oil pan but found the front con rod fouled the oil pump! I got a new oil pump, and found the oil pan would not seat because the oil pump was too tall. Draw your own conclusions on how this happened, but needless to say the car was not running when I got it. New oil pan too, and all together.

The body is ready for paint, and I put the engine in on the 5th of May. A couple of surprises waited for me: The bigger oil pan hit the cross member. For now a few washers solved the problem until a more permanent solution can be found, and the increased height does not interfere with the hood.

Question: Are the 2000 engine mounts taller than the accordion mounts???

Other issues were the larger aluminum radiator is a LOT taller than the 1400 one. The main problem here was moving the lower radiator mount and dropping the sway bar about an inch and a half. Now we have to modify the oil pan guard to fit the sway bar and cover the bottom of the radiator. Are the newer sway bars with the bend in them made to clear the radiator in the newer cars, or for some other reason?

Knee replacement is going to stall the project for a while, but the rebuild is finally coming to an end.

Steve

[azruss]

the difference is in the crossmember. the crossmember for the 2L had 1/8" shims between the member and the body essentially lowering the entire cross member. And yes, a higher motor mount. I ran a 2L with a 70 crossmember and had a little rub, but did nothing but take a little paint off.

[weengra]

Having owned both a 1483 and a 2L FI car, you'll have WAY more fun driving the 1438. It'll make you a better driver, for you can't rely on torque to stay in a good power band. b-

[spiderrey]

My 2 cents. Had a 1438, got bored and dropped in a 2 liter. Sold the 1438 since there was nothing wrong with it. Also had a 1608, replaced with a 2 liter. The smaller engines are fun high revving engines. Nothing wrong with them, just depends on what you want. By the way , both on my 70 and 71, never changed out the cross member. Never had any issues. Always used new motor mounts, that might be the difference.

[PhillySpider]

I just like a stock car...my 2 cents.