Headlight/wiper issues

[Zaffer]

I am looking at the Wiring schematics on artigue's website trying to figure out why my headlights and wipers are acting a certain way. All of my marker and instrument lights work in the first headlight position, but when I switch to the headlight position (2), all lights go out and the charging light comes on. In the marker light position and off position, no charging light. Concerning the wipers, when I turn them on, regardless of position, nothing happens with the wipers and the charging light comes on. The same thing happens with the fan switch: off -> no charge light; on ( high or low) -> charge light on. Turn signals, brake lights, and reverse lights also work fine. Would this be a grounding pod issue or maybe an ignition switch? The car runs fine.

It's really annoying as I'm trying to get the car on the road in all conditions, just in case, even though it's a fair weather vehicle at the moment.

I'm sure this will be a "duh" moment for me, but any help would be greatly appreciated.

[autotransgression]

from what i have experienced, i can almost guarantee that all these woes will be easily solved by doing what is referred to as 'the brown wire fix'. search the forum.

essentially, you add an additional 'hot' line from a spare blade on the back of the ignition switch, and connect it to the alternator. i used to have strange combinations of settings cause weird problems like you described, including when i pulled the stalk to flash the high beams, my stereo would power cycle.

for like eight bucks in parts and quite literally ten minutes' work, everything electrical now works amazingly well. plus, even way before doing this, i got a bigger alternator from allison's automotive. the improvement was immense, but then doing the wire fix made it into a whole new car.

[Zaffer]

Thanks for that information! It makes sense in a way as my headlights/wipers/fan used to work, but the headlights were slow to come on and DIM! I will try this sometime this week, once I get some time from my 2-year old/wife . I will post my results, hopefully soon. Thanks!

[seabeelt]

Sounds like a grounding or short type issue. What year car?

Some have grounding pods, easy cars do not. If you have grounding pods, clean the pod and all the connectors connected to it. Also make sure you have a good engine to chassis ground. There should be a strap from the body to the transmission but they are often corroded or just plain missing.

I would start there before doing the " brown wire fix". Later year cars came with this already done. (We are talking battery in the trunk cars). Cars with the battery in the engine compartment don't need this fix.

Year of car also determines internal or external voltage regulator, pending upgrades etc. and amp output of the alternator. Early cars 45 amp or so and later year cars 55 and 65 if memory serves me correctly.

Not to confuse matters, but Have you tested the alternator to make sure it's making amps under load. Description sounds like it is not as well.

R/

[Zaffer]

I went ahead with the brown wire fix as I feel it can't hurt. No change in condition. I was having an issue with my alternator not charging, replaced the regulator and now the output voltage is around 13.76. I don't know the amperage as I don't have an amp clamp. I just checked the grounding pod under the dash and it's in good shape, though I'm still going to clean everything g when I get the chance.

The other pods appear to be in good shape, but then again I know how appearances can be deceiving. It just seems weird to me that seemingly unrelated systems can be causing the same issue, but they are all high draw circuits.

As for the grounding strap, I haven't had a chance to look at that, but shouldn't the lack of the strap cause the starter not to function? I know it does on newer cars. My car starts fine and runs well, just having the issues with higher loads on the car.

By the way, my car is a 1982 2000 with the 65A alternator. I would like to upgrade to the 95A, just don't have the funds at the moment.

Thanks for all of the suggestions thus far!

[aj81spider]

Sounds like you might have a short to ground. When you turn the lights on check the voltage at the switch. Also try disconnecting the lights at a few points in the circuit to see if it goes away - if it is a short that will also tell you where along the wires it might be.

[seabeelt]

Starter is grounded to the engine, alternator is grounded to the engine, your year car battery is grounded to the chassis. All the more reason to check for the cassis to motor ground strap and its condition. Headlights are grounded at the pods on each fender well. Also check the grounds for the tail light circuit boards in the trunk, this one in particular will cause wonky conditions. Wiper motor is grounded to the same ground pod as the passenger side headlights. I would start there. Alternator should be putting out between 14.2 and 14.7 volts. Closer to 14.2 under load.

[Zaffer]

Yeah, disconnecting the headlights was going to be my next step, just ran out of time last night due to a bad thunderstorm. I disconnected the grounds at the pod under the dash with no change in function. I'm halfway thinking it might be on the headlight circuit, but tracing wires and connectors will tell, hopefully.

I'm also going to take home my power probe this weekend and see what happens with these circuits; see if maybe it's a switch or something else. I hate electrical, but I have no choice at the moment.

I'll post again once I get another chance to work on the car, probably not until later on this week/weekend.

Thanks!

[azruss]

An 82 shouldn't need the brown wire fix as this was a manufacturers mod this late in the production. It does sound like a short. Figure out what is common with the headlights and the wipers and look there.

[spider2081]

With the cars engine running about 1500 RPM what is the voltage at the alternator output terminal with head lights and wipers off and then what is it with them both on.

[Zaffer]

Azruss, that's what I'm currently trying to do, but there doesn't seem to be much commonality in wires between the circuits. The main circuit that seems to be shared is the circuit between the alternator and KL-15 on the ingnition switch. I haven't had time to trace the wires or inspect the connectors yet. I'm going to try and disconnect each component one at a time and see if that narrows it down. I did disconnect the headlight switch, but the wipers and fan still do the same thing.

I printed off artigue's wiring diagrams, but it looks as though I need to blow it up a little as the numbers/letters are a little difficult to read at the moment. It's a little difficult flipping between the pages and tracing wires at the same time, so I'll try to color code the wires and see what seems to be the coming thread.

[azruss]

the multi-page schematic approach takes a while to learn to use. Brad did a nice job of segmenting it so you shouldn't need more than 1 or 2 pages. I electronically color code the circuits i'm looking at and that helps clear the riff-raff out of the drawing. Even if you can find a common power or ground circuit, see if they share any connection points. I you have a high resistance connection on one wire, it can create enough heat at that point to influence the other connections in the same connector.

[4uall]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YxW6bc_gk8

[Zaffer]

I think Artigue's wiring diagrams are great! I just need to get a set of colored pens and color in the circuits I need, just been busy and keep forgetting. The things that throws me off is that I'm used to german cars which use brown for grounds, and Fiat uses them for power.

Thanks for all of the help and suggestions and HOPEFULLY I'll find the issue soon as I'm getting anxious to get this car on the road, no matter what time of day or conditions!

[autotransgression]

An 82 shouldn't need the brown wire fix as this was a manufacturers mod this late in the production. It does sound like a short. Figure out what is common with the headlights and the wipers and look there.

hey, i have been curious about this statement. mine is a 1980, and the second positive blade on the back of the ignition switch was not used. i added the wire up to the alternator, and had immediate and noticeable improvement in everything electrical on the car. did they do this at the factory beginning in like 81 or 82?