Did a lot of work, now runs like crap!

[kcramp858]

Hello!

I have a 1975 124 (1608 block, 1800 head, 1800 manifold) which was essentially running like a top. I have been on a "let's fix everything" spree lately, and I have done a lot of work. I'll skip you with the boring details, and start with my problem.

It was last running fine after I did the suspension rebuild. Next I did the following:
-V-belt
-Timing belt
-static timing (cams on mark, aux shaft at 1 o clock, top dead center (which was on the middle line of the 3 on my timing cover, but my timing cover may not be accurate), dizzy pointing at cyl 4)
-EMPI Carb installation (came from a 34/36 adfa weber) -- the linkage I think might be my issue, as it just looks stupid. I cut off the end of the cable, pushed it into the vertical portion of the screw, and put the teeny screw through it. I then attached that to the ball-rod-end thing, and attached it to the middle hole in the linkage. See picture. (http://imgur.com/a/dxCc2)
-Radiator hose replacement with the trilled t-stat for added bleeding capability
-IAP headlight relay kit

I'm having trouble starting the thing...It will start and it runs REALLY rough when idling (high at 3k rpm ish) and intermittently cycles up to 6-7k rpm on its own. Anyone have any ideas how to get these things going from scratch?

I screwed the air mixture screw all the way in, then backed it out 2 full 360deg turns, and I basically left the idle stop alone. I have the vacuum advance port capped (I don't think I have one, never had one before) and capped off the remainder of my partially removed smog crap (a few hoses were attached to the weber before, namely the goofy black canister and some other cylinder looking thing on next to the fuses).

[garion]

(which was on the middle line of the 3 on my timing cover, but my timing cover may not be accurate)

Usually, its the large line, not the middle line. Your timing might be off a notch on the crankshaft (which is a big jump).

On the dizzy, are you pointed at the #4 cylinder itself (the rotor pointed towards the #4 sparkplug), or rotor pointed to the #4 terminal *inside* the dizzy cap?

[RoyBatty]

Where are you located?
You might have some success in asking a local forum member that has the ability to drop by to help you.

[kcramp858]

I am located in Santa Monica, CA

I know that usually it is the large line on the timing cover, but using the screwdriver-in-cylinder technique, I found the middle line (one notch away) from the large line to be closer to TDC..Also, I have two timing covers and both are slightly different, but both fit. I think it may be a product of the frakenstein 1608/1800? I usually run without a cover because I like being able to see what is going on...Would being off by one notch cause it to run THIS bad?

Note that I did not touch the dizzy other than to re-check it, the only reason I re-did the static timing is because when I took the belt off, I accidentally rolled a cam so I had to start over from scratch.

Inside the dizzy cap the metal portion of the rotor was pointing at the #4..extrusion (inside the cap).

[aj81spider]

Probably not your problem, but I recently changed my head and had a brutal time trying to get it started after I put it back together. It would start, run rough, ramp up RPM's and stall just like you describe. It turned out I had forgotten to attach the brake booster to the intake manifold and I had a huge vacuum leak. Connected the hose and the car started on the first turn of the key.

Before you tear too much hair out check that you reconnected all your hoses and that you don't have a vacuum leak somewhere.

[So Cal Mark]

the cable connection is correct. Do you have slack in the cable so that the throttle can close completely? From what you describe it sounds like there is a large vacuum leak. Did you disconnect and plug the egr tube?

[bradartigue]

Having the mixture screw out and the throttle plate closed like you described isn't getting much air into the engine past the plates. Therefore set your idle more correctly, which is:

Disconnect your throttle cable
Turn in your idle speed stop screw until it just touches the throttle mechanism, then 1.5 turns
Fully seat your mixture screw then back out 1.5 turns
If it runs then adjust the mixture to where it runs smoothest, then back the stop screw out or in to 850 RPM.
Reconnect the throttle cable

If it doesn't run like this, or runs like crap:

Wavering idle - air leak
Backfiring/puffing through exhaust - ignition timing
Smooth idle / no power / very hot exhaust manifold - retarded ignition or crank timing
Loping but consistent idle (with stock cams) - cam and/or crank timing is off

Not a perfect reference but it will get you started.

[Texsardo]

Just as a quick mention. I rebuilt my 32 ADFA on my 1978 1800. I followed the majority of the suggestions on the charcoal canister being a piece no longer needed and capped off carb at those points. Almost removed canister but try a test start and run. Great start then loping 5000 rpm or so. Okay put the canister hoses back on and it runs like a charm again. So some of the guys that said that the canister was there for reason were probably right. I know everyone likes to remove as much as they can from the carb, etc. Just my opinion to check before removing everything and the impact on performance.
Texsardo

[kcramp858]

Just a quick update - Thanks everyone for the guidance in troubleshooting!

I haven't fixed it yet, but tomorrow I will tackle all of these at once...

I tried a bunch of different things with the carb, just like Brad suggested, and still had no luck. I then sprayed the base of the carb with some carb cleaner and the idle dipped! Looks like it was sucking air from the base of the carbs...I put copper coat on each side of the spacers, but after having a conversation with Mark, it looks like I forgot to add these gaskets. I THOUGHT THEY WERE CARDBOARD PACKING SLIPS! http://i.imgur.com/pmit90m.jpg

I also then listened to what Brad said and found my exhaust manifold to be really hot. I rolled the engine over to TDC by rocking it back and forth via 4th gear, and found this...http://i.imgur.com/HWj2ISh.jpg
Looks like the right hand cam is off...............................................................
I assume this was TDC because I matched the left hand cam to the marker, the rotor inside the dizzy was pointing at #4, the aux shaft was lined up to the screw-indicator-thing, and the crank pulley looked about where it should be if I had a timing cover on. Hopefully I am not missing on some obvious concept here.

Also, this thing on the carburetor sprayed me with mist...or it is misting out the gasket. I am not sure what this is.
http://i.imgur.com/XFrzwBZ.jpg

Anyways, I will update after I tackle the timing and the stupid gaskets.

Thanks all!

[So Cal Mark]

that is the choke pull-off and only has vacuum in it, not fuel

[131]

and the crank pulley looked about where it should be if I had a timing cover on.

You have to be more accurate than this. Everything is referenced to the crank, if the crank is not on TDC, everything else is wrong. The exhaust cam could be timed to the crank, but it appears out in your photo, it could actually be the inlet cam that is wrong.

[kcramp858]

I don't believe I have a correct timing cover that will bolt onto my engine. Both of the ones that I have do not line up with the boltholes.

I find TDC by holding the timing cover where it should be if it fit, get it to the dashes, and then roll it back and forth with a screwdriver inside the #1 spark plug hole....I roll the crank back and forth at the top of its travel, and "feel" for the "middle" of the travel...Hard to explain? It comes up, pauses at the top, then goes down. I set it at the "pause at the top." Does that corroborate with the long-dash on the timing cover?

[TStark]

There is a procedure for finding tdc with a dial indicator, approaching tdc from both directions, marking at the same piston height then halfing the distance between them. Search for it on the interweb

[spider2081]

any chance you had the cam gears off and could have accidentally swapped them,

[seabeelt]

With the 1600, the timing cover should have the timing marks on the drivers side. ( metal cover). I believe the 1800 and 2000 have plastic covers with the timing marks on the passenger side. Like others have said. TDC #4, rotor at #4 cam pull lies aligned with the pointer holes........... Pointer may be off if you swapped head and swapped pointer with it or not. All pointers are not created equal as the different models have slightly different widths.