My folly - supercharged megasquirt 2L TC or die trying

[131]

Currently someone is offering a charger from a wrecked mini, but it's probably undersized for the job and they were asking $400 anyway.

It's an ideal size, a small blower turning fast is more efficient than a large blower turning slowly. An M90 is too big for a 2 litre, an M62 would be OK, but they're harder to find.

[TimpanogosSlim]

Yeah i had suspected that since it came coupled to a 3.6 the M90 is too big.

the SC14 was employed to make 6psi on a 2.4 so i figured that was closer to my goal.

I'll have to find specs for the (Sprintex?) mini supercharger.

Ah, it's an M45.

[TimpanogosSlim]

Handy sheet: http://victorylibrary.com/supercharger/ ... n-data.htm

[TimpanogosSlim]

I've begun collecting artifacts here:

http://goo.gl/QQtlAu

[burgandy81]

Yeah i had suspected that since it came coupled to a 3.6 the M90 is too big.

the SC14 was employed to make 6psi on a 2.4 so i figured that was closer to my goal.

The M90 is only 6% Larger than the SC14. Might not be too bad.

an M62 would be OK, but they're harder to find.

Agreed. the M62 from a Nissan Extera is a nice option with an integrated bypass. Missed a great deal on one a couple of years ago and have regretted it every since.

[TimpanogosSlim]

fuel pressure regulator. 'fixed' was the wrong idea.

well, fixed could work, there might be enough range of injector duty cycle, but it's still not the greatest idea.

the fuel regulator should have a 1:1 relationship vs. intake manifold pressure, so that the pressure in the fuel rail remains statically relative to the pressure in the intake manifold.

Looks like this is a part that is less likely to be both good and cheap. Since most cars since the 80's have the regulator integral to the fuel rail it's down to tuner parts.

There's a way to modify a classic bosch regulator from D-Jet cars, or you can pay MSD to do it for you in the form of their model 2222 regulator, and prices go up from there, because word is that the shiny "jdm" parts on ebay do not work.

I might burn some more time looking for a potential scrap yard part, but i haven't come up with anything yet and sort of doubt i will.

Friday a cold hit me pretty hard so i haven't gotten anything done unless you count google searches.

[burgandy81]

You might want to look for a FPR from an Alfa Romeo 164. High pressure and remotely mounted. Should be a couple in junkyards. And hey, its Italian!

[TimpanogosSlim]

could be. alfas are pretty rare in utah, so i won't be pulling one in person. I don't know that we ever had an alfa dealership, though i'm sure there were some in colorado, and people in the rarefied air of Denver even bought things like Volvo 740 Bertone coupes.

It has occurred to me that i should figure out how much is possible within a microsquirt without having to go up to an MS3 module. So far I've been figuring out what sensors and parts are likely to work with both, but it's quite possible that there just isn't enough ram to use all of it, or not enough pins on the harness.

Microsquirt can use GM's knock sensor (with signal conditioner module) used from the late 80's through the 90's. As i understand it, it's important to get one from an engine with similar bore and stroke, so I'll have to figure out what engine that would be.

GM installed these in the coolant drain plug position, 3/8 NPT thread. That seems like a reasonable position except that on the 2.0 TC it's on the hot side of the block, but that might be ok anyway. Also, the fiat plug is nowhere near 3/8 NPT and it remains to be seen whether it could be safely drilled and tapped to that size.

From experience I believe that the Toyota knock sensors are much closer in thread pitch to the fiat coolant plug. I'm also quite certain that Mr. T's knock sensors are a piezo disc in a bolt (cut one open once). It's probably foolish to wonder if i could use the Toyota sensor with the GM module.

[burgandy81]

Microsquirt can use GM's knock sensor (with signal conditioner module) used from the late 80's through the 90's. As i understand it, it's important to get one from an engine with similar bore and stroke, so I'll have to figure out what engine that would be.

You might want to try a knock sensor from a turbo Lancia engine. Several variants of the 2.0 Fiat block used in turbo cars in the world other than US/Canada. Lancia Delta and Thema seem to be the more popular cars that are still supported in the aftermarket. Make sure you are shopping for 8 Valve pars (the 16 valve parts are more common) The UK and German ebay are good sources. This would give you a knock sensor from an VERY near relative and may even have a convenient mounting arrangement.

GM installed these in the coolant drain plug position, 3/8 NPT thread. That seems like a reasonable position except that on the 2.0 TC it's on the hot side of the block, but that might be ok anyway. Also, the fiat plug is nowhere near 3/8 NPT and it remains to be seen whether it could be safely drilled and tapped to that size.

Look for Saturns. They use GM parts with all metric fasteners. I have a GM sensor in my stock FIAT sensor position between the cam wheels.

As a point of interest I had difficulties with my air temp sensor heat soaking as I mounted it into the intake manifold. I have a new sensor in the end of my cone air filter and this is much better.

[TimpanogosSlim]

You might want to try a knock sensor from a turbo Lancia engine. Several variants of the 2.0 Fiat block used in turbo cars in the world other than US/Canada. Lancia Delta and Thema seem to be the more popular cars that are still supported in the aftermarket. Make sure you are shopping for 8 Valve pars (the 16 valve parts are more common) The UK and German ebay are good sources. This would give you a knock sensor from an VERY near relative and may even have a convenient mounting arrangement.

The difficulty there is that Microsquirt can't accept a raw knock sensor signal - it needs some outboard circuitry, and the common / recommended setup is what GM used from late 80's to early 00's, since it's a 1-pin sensor and a small 5-pin control module.

And even then, it seems that knock sensors are tuned to the bore and stroke of the engine they are applied to, which is why the Camry knock sensor i bought _LOOKS_ just like my land cruiser's knock sensors, but won't work right in the land cruiser. And the obd1 1FZ-FE ECU tech isn't very talkative and will just retard timing w/o throwing a code if it's unhappy about it's knock sensors. Doesn't throw a code until it's sure the sensor is dead.

So, I'll look at what Lancia was doing, but that option might require an outboard arduino or something. Thanks for the tip.

Look for Saturns. They use GM parts with all metric fasteners. I have a GM sensor in my stock FIAT sensor position between the cam wheels.

Huh, not sure what sensor you're referring to, unless FIAT put knock sensors in the head below the water neck? or do you mean a coolant temp sensor?

Still, I didn't realize that Saturn was all metric. It looks like the 1.9 SOHC I-4 in the SL1 may be a knock sensor candidate - 82mm bore 90mm stroke vs. the 2.0 TC's 84/90.

As a point of interest I had difficulties with my air temp sensor heat soaking as I mounted it into the intake manifold. I have a new sensor in the end of my cone air filter and this is much better.

That might not be totally kosher. As i understand it, IAT is supposed to be the temperature of the air after anything that might heat or cool it. I know that can get confusing for some people because a MAF, as a thermal device, has an air temperature sensor in it, which really just serves as a reference for MAF calculations, but also shows up as something you can view and log over OBD2.

In my GTI, my Ultragauge can read both the sensor in the MAF and the sensor in the intake manifold (plastic sensor in plastic manifold, not a lot of heat soaking), and there is an ambient air temperature sensor inside the front driver fender that provides the outside temperature display on the cluster, so in the summer i can get a pretty immediate idea of how well the intercooler is doing it's job. Also helped me determine that my shiny metal heat shield between the exhaust manifold and the aluminum 'cool air intake' tube doesn't do diddly squat if the car has been stationary with a hot engine. IATs got lower with the factory engine cover / intake setup. I installed a Volant intake recently, made of plastic, and I'm interested to see how that will perform this summer.

I forget if your engine is naturally aspirated, in which case, it's probably just fine. In a forced induction setup it needs to be closer to the throttle body or intake manifold. As i understand it, it's used to make an air volume calculation based on atmospheric pressure, air temperature, and the known volume of a cylinder. Which is then corrected by wideband lambda, if you have one.

I'm guessing it should be somewhere in the thick of the air flow right near the TB or in the plenum between the mouths of the 2nd and 3rd intake runners or something, to give an honest idea of how much oxygen is really getting into the engine.

[burgandy81]

The difficulty there is that Microsquirt can't accept a raw knock sensor signal -

I had forgotten this. Good point. Please post your findings.

Huh, not sure what sensor you're referring to, unless FIAT put knock sensors in the head below the water neck?

Sorry, I got off track. I thought you were referring to temp sensors in the water line. IF you had been, then the Saturn metric thread IAT and Water Temp sensors with GM resistance curves would have been a little more useful.

As a point of interest I had difficulties with my air temp sensor heat soaking as I mounted it into the intake manifold. I have a new sensor in the end of my cone air filter and this is much better.

That might not be totally kosher. As i understand it,

Very nice description, thanks. At the moment I am still NA so the filter temp is reasonable for the inlet temp (more or less). Once the charger and intercooler are in place I will need to re think as you describe. My current plan is for a short plastic pipe immediately in front of the TB with an IAT sensor in it. This in theory will reduce heat soak and still give an accurate intake temp.

I like your level of detail. Please keep posting!

[TimpanogosSlim]

That makes more sense. I kinda want to keep the original gauges functional but if there is an easy way to have two coolant sensors i may as well, since i won't have to determine curves for the original sensors. I don't recall if the EFI manifold has the same water passage as the carburetor version had. The sensor position for the horribly bad anti-nox timing "feature" on my 77 would be a good one.

[timinator]

Might try Knocksense.

http://www.viatrack.ca/

[TimpanogosSlim]

Might try Knocksense.

http://www.viatrack.ca/

Cool. I'm'a try and find a commodity knock sensing method, but it's good to know there is a universal product.

[TimpanogosSlim]

Spent the morning at the pic-a-part.

Got four COPs from a 98 excursion, a fuse/relay box from a 90's cherokee, TPS and IAC valve from an early 90's volvo 940, IAT from a VW 1.8T (because it won't heat soak like the GM sensor), two identical EDIS-4 controllers from a pair of '93 escorts, a coil pack from one of those, a pair of 2-bar MAP Sensors from a couple old saturns, since i was in saturn country when i thought of it. one for the intake plenum, one for ambient.

pigtails on everything of course, and i have the neat rubber bracket that holds the volvo IAC solenoid.

It turns out that it's way easier to get the crank position sensor off of an escort if the crank pulley is removed. The megasquirt docs hint at that, but don't state it. The inner fender blocks some of the hardware and you just can't get there easily without removing the pulley. I wasn't prepared to drop the pan, chock the crank, and remove the crank pulley today, so i leave that for another day. Then I'll have the 39-1 sprocket too, in case i find a way to use it.

I also didn't bring in the 13mm deep socket i need to pull the coolant temperature sensor from a saturn.

$106 including tax. Not bad at all.

I can't shake the idea that MAYBE there is an o-ring fuel rail in the yards with the same center-to-center dimensions as the fiat injectors. So I'm gonna take some measurements.

Edit: I should have double checked the TPS, i came home with a switch rather than sensor. seems that the one i want is only on the 850, V70, and S70. The yard i went to today didn't have those, but i still need a crank position sensor, so I'll return the TPS and trade it for the CPS.