1975 124 Weld Done While Battery Connected Car Won't Start

[DieselSpider]

Remember that disconnecting the battery when welding is mostly to protect computer electronics not the main harness.

If that damage was from the welding one would also expect any sensitive electronics to have been damaged also however in a 1975 Spider an aftermarket radio and possibly an after market ignition system are the only items that one would expect to be impacted by electric welding since the car is not computer controlled and very old school.

There is no ECU, PCM or ABS controller to worry about in a 1975 Spider. You might have damage to the diodes in the alternator/voltage regulator however that would be a very rare occurrence and they would have to have been on the verge of failing anyways. On a car with sensitive electronics you would also for best protection need to unplug each component individually which then adds the potential for each connection taken apart to fail so even that action can be a double edged sword having the potential to cause a failure instead of preventing one.

I'd cut the welder a little slack here as the connector looks like it was on the road to failing for some time and time more likely just caught up with it. I understand we sometimes need to find a villain when these things happen however this is likely just coincidental.

When dealing with 30/40 year old wiring, that has been maintained and repaired by others over those years who have little or no knowledge or are lacking the tools to do the job correctly, you will have these things happen. Get a proper crimping tool and get it done right and hopefully you will have many years of happy driving ahead along with the satisfaction that comes from a job done well.

[Flyboytha1]

Remember that disconnecting the battery when welding is mostly to protect computer electronics not the main harness.

If that damage was from the welding one would also expect any sensitive electronics to have been damaged also however in a 1975 Spider an aftermarket radio and possibly an after market ignition system are the only items that one would expect to be impacted by electric welding since the car is not computer controlled and very old school.

There is no ECU, PCM or ABS controller to worry about in a 1975 Spider. You might have damage to the diodes in the alternator/voltage regulator however that would be a very rare occurrence and they would have to have been on the verge of failing anyways. On a car with sensitive electronics you would also for best protection need to unplug each component individually which then adds the potential for each connection taken apart to fail so even that action can be a double edged sword having the potential to cause a failure instead of preventing one.

I'd cut the welder a little slack here as the connector looks like it was on the road to failing for some time and time more likely just caught up with it. I understand we sometimes need to find a villain when these things happen however this is likely just coincidental.

When dealing with 30/40 year old wiring, that has been maintained and repaired by others over those years who have little or no knowledge or are lacking the tools to do the job correctly, you will have these things happen. Get a proper crimping tool and get it done right and hopefully you will have many years of happy driving ahead along with the satisfaction that comes from a job done well.

Exactly a coincidental is how I take it he didn't call to say the car wasn't start nor did I remind him I would like for him to remove the battery when he does the weld I took it for what it's worth 50/50 fault no need to go back and point a figure just move on and fix my ride.

I'm just looking for help from the Spider guru's

[DieselSpider]

So keep an eye open for other bad crimps and such that were done over the years before you took stewardship of the car and get them taken care of. Unfortunately the act of inspection sometimes will be all that is needed to make them fail completely. Stop by Radio Shack and get some DeoxIt to help with cleaning up the connectors and just start going through them as you work on the car paying good attention to the main ground lugs and main feed coming from the battery to the starter/alternator and fuse panel.

[bradartigue]

The welder didn't damage that connector.

I run a small shop, and I seldom will work on people's "projects". Often when you fix something for them, say their headlights, then they come back at you with the next thing that doesn't work, say their heater fan/wheel bearing/wipers whatever.

More of a curiosity than anything else - I agree the welder didn't damage it. Honestly that connector, and several others, I often found looking "burned" - mainly because the poor (and now very old) electrical system runs with high resistances almost everywhere, all the time. Things get hot.

The welding likely compounded whatever the pending problem was. I wouldn't diagnose by what looks bad but by what fails testing. Things that should have power should have it - very simply - and if they don't then you have to figure out why that is. Perhaps a ground simply dropped somewhere. Typically things that broadly fail on these cars are tied to a common point (e.g. a ground or power source).

[BEEK]

i m 100% with majicwrench, the welder had absolutely nothing to do with that connector. that is a common fail point on spiders. that was from the connector overheating from a poor connection and years of use. simple repair and not the welders fault, unless he disturbed the connection, then it would be coincidence and not his fault as the first bump you hit would have done the same thing.

[spider2081]

I also agree with majicwrench and Beek.
The welding (current though car chassis) had nothing to do with this problem.
Some of the comments remind me of t he TV ad. "I saw it on the internet so it must be true"

This has become a very long and difficult post because the first rule of troubleshooting was not adhered to.

rule #1 Be opened minded. Preconceived faults are wrong too often.
rest of rules
#2 Know how the system is suppose to work.
#3 list what is working
#4 list what is not working
#5 Begin a logical list of tests to isolate problem.

Blame and outright guessing are not good troubleshooting techniques.
If the area of the car where this connector is located was taped together as mentioned, that in itself is a good indication the problem was already there,

[Flyboytha1]

Lol is a whole lot of agreeing but no solution direct at the question being ask. I can read and I have a mind again search about welding when the battery is connected to a car period you will find all kind of dis agreement on to weld with the battery connected or not connected.

So you all can agree to the weld did not cuase the issue. So why reply when your not adding any suggestion for my question for help but agreeing with one stated earlier it does not help me in anyway. I'm done and over that I would simply like to fix my ride not hear something that's been search and all you find is some people say while welding with the battery connect will cause issue with the electrical and not just these newer cars with computer chip that gets burned out lol also then there's some that say nothing will happen.

So just cuase you are agreeing with someone still doesn't make them nor you correct.

[Flyboytha1]

So to let everyone know I've printed a huge wiring diagram to go into the wiring and look at all the inline fuse and start looking for anything else tweaked, fried, or looks corroded.

There's only been 2-3 real answers of help reply to my needs.


So I'll be busy for awhile

[Flyboytha1]

So to let everyone know I've printed a huge wiring diagram to go into the wiring and look at all the inline fuse and start looking for anything else tweaked, fried, or looks corroded.

There's only been 2-3 real answers of help reply to my needs.


So I'll be busy for awhile

[spider2081]

So what is the question that has not been answered???? For some reason I don't understand just what you are asking.

[Flyboytha1]

So what is the question that has not been answered???? For some reason I don't understand just what you are asking.

No your reply helped me earlier, thanks much! Tracing the power sources battery, starter, alternator the things you stated to look into.

[bradartigue]

Imagine the number of people from this thread who care after your posts. Good luck.

[DieselSpider]

Also do not discount the DeoxIt or other chemical cleaners of equal quality. The least amount of physical abrasion and trauma on the connections the better. Obtaining the best quality set if crimping pliers you can reasonably afford will also help ensure that your crimps won't look like those in the pictures posted here that some commented looked particularly nasty.

No bulls in the Fiat wiring harness should be allowed so when you feel like your getting frustrated or short on patience its probably best to step away and call it a day.

I am only getting 10.9 to 11.5 volts to the tail lights which I am gingerly chasing down starting from the battery and working my way through the vehicle. Spent the better part of the day at the starter and then the glow plug relay which on my Diesel Spider are the first two items attached to the green main coming from the battery. Had to replace the solenoid on the starter itself since it was too far gone and barrel crimped in such a way that there was no possibility of my disassembling it for internal repair. Now it feels like I could drive it to the curb in a pinch. Not a bad result for a $22 investment in a new solenoid and some electrical terminal paste.

Next will be to clean up the alternator which has the added twist of having a vacuum pump lubricated by a leaking engine oil line that will need to be custom fabricated and procured first since in all likelihood just staring at it too long and hard could cause it to fail. One of the added joys of dealing with an older style Diesel.

Just keep repeating - "By the mile its a trial and by the yard its still hard however inch by inch and its a cinch." Once you've got it all straight and your driving down a scenic lane this will all be a distant memory and seem well worth it.

[Flyboytha1]

Imagine the number of people from this thread who care after your posts. Good luck.

[Flyboytha1]

Also do not discount the DeoxIt or other chemical cleaners of equal quality. The least amount of physical abrasion and trauma on the connections the better. Obtaining the best quality set if crimping pliers you can reasonably afford will also help ensure that your crimps won't look like those in the pictures posted here that some commented looked particularly nasty.

No bulls in the Fiat wiring harness should be allowed so when you feel like your getting frustrated or short on patience its probably best to step away and call it a day.

I am only getting 10.9 to 11.5 volts to the tail lights which I am gingerly chasing down starting from the battery and working my way through the vehicle. Spent the better part of the day at the starter and then the glow plug relay which on my Diesel Spider are the first two items attached to the green main coming from the battery. Had to replace the solenoid on the starter itself since it was too far gone and barrel crimped in such a way that there was no possibility of my disassembling it for internal repair. Now it feels like I could drive it to the curb in a pinch. Not a bad result for a $22 investment in a new solenoid and some electrical terminal paste.

Next will be to clean up the alternator which has the added twist of having a vacuum pump lubricated by a leaking engine oil line that will need to be custom fabricated and procured first since in all likelihood just staring at it too long and hard could cause it to fail. One of the added joys of dealing with an older style Diesel.

Just keep repeating - "By the mile its a trial and by the yard its still hard however inch by inch and its a cinch." Once you've got it all straight and your driving down a scenic lane this will all be a distant memory and seem well worth it.

Great info.