1975 124 Weld Done While Battery Connected Car Won't Start

[Flyboytha1]

Stuff is gonna happen. Look at it as a good opportunity to get to know the wiring/ignition system better. If it failed now, likely it would have failed sooner or later anyway.

Very true, learn about the motor never really been a electrical guy, Learn something else today as i started changing out the points, condensers and the new coil, Then went over to the relay box untapped all the wiring coming out the driver side firer wall looking for burnt or melted wires nothing, then started tracing each connector path duh didn't know the harness connectors ran straight to each relay box so i separated them looked in and out of them, then it came to mind on me i have the 78' with some relays in it ching, ching swap them out total of 4, left the wires out turn the key radio came on blasting WOW did that put a smile on my face, Gas, clock, radio, and brake lights were all on and working .

I didn't start it yet cause i need to still gap the points again, but man that was enough to bring my day back to happy day of working on the 124

[Flyboytha1]

If i understand right, your starter is turning the engine over but the engine is failing to run?
Try running temporary jumper wire from the alternator output to the positive side of the coil. Then try to start the engine.
If this gets you running, you now know that the parts in the distributor and the coil are working. This let's you know you have a fault in the wiring from the ignition switch to the engine compartment. If it does not run, then you may have cooked a coil, condenser, or welded the contact breakers/ points together.

Will try the next step and start her tomorrow got power back to the dash radio, clock, gas gauges all working again changed out the points, coil and condenser's today before i got power again.

[DieselSpider]

See what happens when you get the Good Old Gumshoe to start working on the case. Good job on chasing it down so far!

Presuming that is add-on wiring there but its had for me to tell since I have the Diesel Spider which is full of creative wiring solutions and such, some really well done and others..... Never mind this is a family oriented forum.

[Flyboytha1]

So guys now that i kind of think the relay harness area is the issue i would like to re-wire the rely harness is there any were i can order the connectors of the same Fiat style to make new wires and connection?

Or do i have to be creative, i have the complete wire harness from the 78' the splice and used to keep the color code the same, only really need new connectors and male and female pins that would go into the connector it self to make new positive connection and relay boxes.

The 78' harness seems to be in much better shape than the 75' harness see photo's below.

Any ideas or site that sell these items?

Thanks again.

[azruss]

all your plastic connectors look in pretty good shape. I cleaned mine up, pulled the connectors from each, cleaned them up and reinstalled. I, too, had a spare harness and scavenged from that as well. I had to grind a special tool and get the locking tongue to release to pull the wires. A tedious job, but worth it.

[Flyboytha1]

Well today i found exactly what was happen with the power the thick black, brown and red wire to the starter from the wire harness was the issue kinda make sense why when i untangle the harness a few days ago that i had power but the next day same thing again no power so in just kept search but had my wife in the car as i moved things around under the hood and bam she screams everything's work.

Burnt loose wires, went to the 78' found a 3 prong connector, cut the wires for fresh connection wired it up and now i have power everywhere again, See photo below

So also today i learned how to remove the wire from the connector so looks like it will just be a time consuming job to clean up the relay wire area no need to really purchase anything but new male and female end connectors.

[bradartigue]

How much of your time is this welder paying for? Seems to me the guy shorted out your electrical system.

[majicwrench]

The welder didn't damage that connector.

I run a small shop, and I seldom will work on people's "projects". Often when you fix something for them, say their headlights, then they come back at you with the next thing that doesn't work, say their heater fan/wheel bearing/wipers whatever.

[spider2081]

I recently worked on a 1978 Spider with the same connector melted, original owner and no welding on the car.

I don't want to sound critical but if that photo of 2 spade connectors next to a nylon connectors is the repaired connectors there is a real problem. The brown wire has wire strands hanging out of the crimp and the black wire is not crimped correctly. It looks like someone tried to make a crimp with a pair of pliers instead of the proper crimping tool. Both spade connectors are bent from pressure being put in the wrong area of the connector.
Who ever is doing this work needs to find a qualified person to instruct them in the use of proper tools and techniques.

Sorry if I offended, but those spade connectors are trouble waiting to happen.

[Flyboytha1]

The welder didn't damage that connector.

I run a small shop, and I seldom will work on people's "projects". Often when you fix something for them, say their headlights, then they come back at you with the next thing that doesn't work, say their heater fan/wheel bearing/wipers whatever.

Lol well I'm not one of those who run back saying you damage this or that these are things that have been found after this weld has been done " For a safety stand point I would disconnect the battery if I was the shop owner or welding on someone else car to keep me safe and not having them return saying things don't work anymore say their heater fan/wheel bearing/wipers as you stated"

I've starting this car up and running with no issues when the key is turned for the last 3 months. If you fill free to search about welding while a car battery is still connect maybe you would understand more of my concerns I've not had any trouble til after I showed up to pick up the car and the first thing he says is there a special way to start the car cause I had to push it into the shop. So why wouldn't he call me and let me know before he did the weld I want you to know I couldn't start your car to drive it in the shop?

Sounds fishy to me lol

But know I found the burnt wires and tracing anymore issues before I start it again.

So no I didn't run back there to point figures how do I know something wasn't just also unplugged so I would take the car back and get a bill racked up on a simple fix.

No thanks I get help online than rather go drop my car off there again.

I'll be alright

[Flyboytha1]

I recently worked on a 1975 Spider with the same connector melted, original owner and no welding on the car.

I don't want to sound critical but if that photo of 2 spade connectors next to a nylon connectors is the repaired connectors there is a real problem. The brown wire has wire strands hanging out of the crimp and the black wire is not crimped correctly. It looks like someone tried to make a crimp with a pair of pliers instead of the proper crimping tool. Both spade connectors are bent from pressure being put in the wrong area of the connector.
Who ever is doing this work needs to find a qualified person to instruct them in the use of proper tools and techniques.

Sorry if I offended, but those spade connectors are trouble waiting to happen.

No offense taken, i'm simply looking for help to repair my issues. I posted a few post back on any leads to find this connectors so I have the same connectors with new pins installed this wiring issue has me ready to take my time and replace all the connectors, there's no rush I've come this far but not to fail now

Looks like Midwest Bayless has these spade pin connectors and relays also I would like to replace, but I will check with Allision Automotive first becuase Mark and his staff have taken well good care of me.

[RoyBatty]

Back in 2010 when I first started sorting out my 75 Spider, one of the first electrical fixes I had to do was to change out all the connectors at the same plug you just dealt with.
It was my understanding that this connector is a known issue for dirty connections causing high resistance and cooking that plug.

[AriK]

I'm not familiar with this connector and it's obviously a good troubleshooting spot to know. Can someone tell me where, or show me with a less zoomed-in image of its location?

[RoyBatty]

Open the hood and look under your intake manifold towards the starter.
There will be a bundle of three large wires.
I think they are red, brown and black. These wires connect to your starter.
Follow those wires away from where they are on the starter and as you come up towards the fender, if its still stock, you will find a 3 prong plug with these wires going into and coming out of it. The connectors in that plug are where the issues can arise.

[spider2081]

I am not very familiar with the Spiders prior to 1980. It was around August of 2014 when I repaired the connector on the car I worked on. I think the connector was located on the drivers side (left side) of car fender well (under Hood) about inline with the engine mount. It can only be identified by the wire colors.

Another question? Who knows the purpose of this connector?
I think its purpose is for assembly line production of the car and once the car is assembled it serves no purpose. So why not just cut it out and splice the wires together matching colors.
On later model Spiders this connector is eliminated and single bullet connectors are used. The bullet connectors are just as troublesome as the 3 pin connector and many owners have eliminated them by splicing the wires together.