Intermittent problem...any ideas??

[ga.spyder]

Hey gang.First off,my 82 Spider is a Trooper(no,not an Isuzu) It has seen rain,sleet,snow,gloom of night and always makes its appointed rounds .Recently,I have twice had a issue crop up out of nowhere.The car just shuts down and wont immediately restart.After it sits for a minute or less,it fires off and happily heads out.Saturday I took a 'fall color' ride thru some curvy roads around the lake.Probably a 20 mile loop.Stopped at the grocery store for about 10 minutes,max.The car fired right up,and I drove down the hill to the stop sign.Hit the brakes and pushed in the clutch ,and the car died.No spit ,no sputter. It just shut off!I tried cranking it 4 or 5 times.It turns over freely,but just doesn't start. I pushed it off the side of the driveway ,and tried to restart a couple more times.It fired up finally,and drove the 15 miles home with no issue.In the garage I tried to replicate the problem.Nothing.Fires up every time.
I had the same thing happen a few days before,pulling into the garage after a short ride.Shut off,wouldnt immediately restart,and after a few tries and maybe a minutes time,she fired right up. WTH???
I have Italian Car Day in Atl. coming up in 2 weeks I DO NOT want to have this happen in Atlanta traffic It seems more of an electrical issue than fuel,although I am not ruling out the fuel pump or other f.i. issues.I am heading to the garage to check the ignition system for loose wire,bad connections,etc... I welcome any ideas or feedback,
Thanks,Craig

[RRoller123]

Sounds like the injectors may not be firing, due to intermittent electrical bad connection or bad relay. If you have a mechanic's stethoscope, you could hear them either firing or not when this happens. My guess is that the relay is flaky.

[ga.spyder]

Is that the double relay in the fusebox? This is what I get for having a car for all these years with no real issues.I had a fuel issue a few winters back,and replace everything from the tank forward.New tank,pump,filler hose ,fuel lines,etc.. Also,had the injectors sent off and serviced.The problem was crap in the tank! Not rust,but full of rubber granules. Never an issue with the electronic end of the system. Thanks for the reply.
If I could replicate the problem in the garage,I am sure I could diagnose fairly easily.I wish I had done that the first time.I hate intermittent problems!

[GeorgeT]

The Double Relay is at the back of the relay tray under the glove box. This is the way my '82 acted until total failure of the Double Relay and until you have total failure it's very difficult to diagnose.

[ga.spyder]

Thanks Georget ,I meant to say the glovebox.Is that relay available from a parts store,or a specialty item ? Having this 250 mile trip to Atl. in front of me,I want to go ahead and change it out.
I checked every system on the car today,and cant find any problem.I did swap out the coil for a new one that I had.All connections good,battery good,alternator putting out.... Car is running like a top like always.Injectors all happily clicking.I drove it and tried to make it occur . No luck.I stalled it purposely and then did 5 or 6 restarts in a row.Ran it hard,stopped quickly,cruised slowly....nothing.
Goin to try and source the relays

[harmon30]

My ignition control module (under the coil on the heat sink) was intermittent and would shut down after it warmed up.
It finally failed long enough to troubleshoot and after replacing the problem went away. Does the tach move when attempting to start?

[ga.spyder]

I really didn't notice if the tach moved or not.I have a spare control module,I will go ahead and swap it out.I have a friend with a Bosch double relay he has put in the mail.I will swap it out,too.I hate throwing parts at a car,but I cant replicate it to test further
I carry a little box of parts in my trunk and a tool kit.I have a coil,mag p/u,ig. control module,hose,clamps,fuel pump etc.... I don't leave home without them,even though this car has been dead nuts reliable!

[majicwrench]

I would NOT go changing things out Dual relay etc), you are gonna create more problems and more questions!! It cetainly COULD be the dual relay, it could also be about 100 other things. IF you wished to carry a spare with you I could understand that. And as you said, you really need it acting up in front of you. I would go for a drive and take some stuff. First thing is to decide if it is fuel related or spark. Carry a spark plug to stick in boot when it fails to start. If it is just you, take a timing light, hook that up and aim it at drivers seat. Try this at home first to get used to how it should flash. I also have a looong plug wire, I can plug it into dist cap and have spark plug clipped onto windsheild wiper so I can watch it.
Also bring a wrench so you can loosed fitting at CSI to see pressure. Again, do this before trip to get used to how much fuel sprays out.

Again, DON'T go changing parts wo some clue. Will create more issues than it solves. You have a dependable car, don't go swapping out all those good parts for parts store replacements.

[bobplyler]

I had a similar problem once.

The upper radiator hose had a tiny hole in it. When
the engine got hot, it would squirt a tiny stream of
coolant towards the coil, which would sometimes hit the
coil, and sometimes not.

[kilrwail]

Craig - you have described the classic symptoms of a failed ignition switch. Try everything else if you like, but I would put my money on that. If you've never replaced it, you will some day. So I would order one and have it available. I might even be right! Been there, done that - same symptoms, easy and inexpensive fix.

[ga.spyder]

Peter,I actually did replace the ignition switch several years ago.Thats not to say it couldn't be failed again.I trust Keiths(majicwrench) advice,as hes a mechanic.Sane advice to carry the spares and wait for it to happen again.I just hope it doesn't happen in the middle of Atlanta I hate to throw parts at a car,not knowing what is wrong.I need to check my mag p/u tomorrow.I forgot about it this morning.I have had that fail in the past,when the wire in the dizz got frayed.
Thanks to everyone for all the help!!

[So Cal Mark]

sounds more like an ignition switch or poor connection to the switch than anything else

[76was124]

I had a similar problem caused by a bad connector on the coolant temp sensor that is on the head coolant T. Maybe someone else can confirm, but as I recall you can bypass the sensor with a jumper wire if the problem happens again to be sure it is the cause.

[ga.spyder]

I will check the switch/connections today. I would like to find the culprit before my trip to the mean streets of Atlanta

[GeorgeT]

Is that relay available from a parts store,or a specialty item ? Goin to try and source the relays

I believe it's a specialty item and fairly expensive. As mentioned in another reply, the ignition control module under the coil could also be going bas. These are reasonably inexpensive and available at Autozone etc.