Rotor not turning.....

[flyinpiper]

This might be a stupid question, but I am stumped. I have searched the forum before asking, I could really use advice. I recently picked up a 77, did run a little rough. Been cleaning it up, tuning the carb, last night it just quit. I thought I was just out of gas.
Put gas in it today, sounded normal cranking, sounds like the engine is turning over, but won't fire. Fuel is fine, checked for spark and got nothing. I am getting current to the coil, took the rotor cap off, everything looked fine, had my kid turn the engine over and saw that the rotor was not turning.
Checked all the belts, they looked fine. Appears that the engine is not turning over, sure sounds like it is. Could the starter not actually be engaging, or am I missing some Italian car trick.
Thanks in advance....

[RRoller123]

Do the belts turn the pulleys when it is attempted to be started?

[flyinpiper]

No they don't..

[RRoller123]

But it sounds like the starter is turning? So it isn't engaging the flywheel, Could be bad starter or bad flywheel teeth.

[chrisfiat]

if the alternator belt is turning , but the cam pulleys are not you have a broken timing belt, time to pull the head,
if the cam pulleys are turning , but the dist rotor is not then you have a broken dist, remove it and repair or replace it.
if you still think the engine is turning over the put the car in first gear and engage the starter with the clutch out, if the car moves, or attempts to move, the starter is turning the crankshaft, and see the above and recheck

[flyinpiper]

I did put it in gear, and the car did jump when turning over. Not seeing any broken belts, did pull the distributer and it's fine, cams not turning. Thanks again for the help!

[ORFORD2004]

Timing belt job

[vandor]

I bet you do have a broken timing belt. There is a very small possibility that the crankshaft gear for the timing belt sheared its keyway and the crank is turning but the gear is not. However I have never seen this happen on a Fiat.
I suppose the exhaust cam's dowel could also have broken, but again, I have never seen this on a Fiat. Most likely the timing belt is broken somewhere. Take the cover off and check.

BTW, when the belt is broken the engine turns over much faster when it's being cranked, as the valves are not being actuated.

[So Cal Mark]

I've seen a couple of broken cam dowels but it was the result of the sprocket bolt being loose. My bet is a broken t-belt also

[Tobi]

You probably shaved off some teeth of the belt and the crank pulley can not grab it anymore. The motor should turn more quiet now because the top is not turning anymore.

[flyinpiper]

Thanks everyone for your assitance. Really appreciate how kind everyone has been to the new guy. I am more of an electrical guy, only engines I have worked on has been a ford 2300. Completely forgot about the timing belt. Just picked this car up for a fun little project for a song, now I know why I got it so cheap. It's okay, having a blast working on it.
Off to look at the timing belt.

Thanks again!

[azruss]

may want to confirm with others, but i think a 77 is a non-interference motor, meaning if the timing is off from broken belt, the valves wont hit the top of the pistons.

[ORFORD2004]

Timing belt, water pump and tensioner bearing and your good to go

[flyinpiper]

Sound of head banging on wall......

Okay, took the radiator off, then the shroud. The timing belt looks good, not broke or frayed. Had my wife turn the car over, crank spins, water pump, looks good. timing belt does not move. I put a wrench on one of the valve cams, turned it a little to right and left, all three gears the belt is around move in unison. What I am not seeing is what from the crank turns the timing belt... Maybe I am just really tired tonight.
I do have a better manual on the way, I stupidly purchased an online manual from tradebit, really bad copy of a copy of a scan, can't make anything out. i thought it was a legit manual.
What am I missing fellas?

Thanks again....

Idiot in Idaho

[ORFORD2004]

You will have to remove the belt to see the tooths missing Under the crank pulley.