Oil Spray

[aj81spider]

My 74 is running and I've driven it a couple of times (almost at the point of drive while finish restore). However I have one serious problem that I cannot seem to find.

I have an oil leak that is somehow getting oil on the exhaust cam pulley. The pulley then sprays oil all over the engine compartment. I can see a line of oil on the bottom of the hood when I open it.

For the life of me I cannot figure out what is leaking. It is not the oil cap, as I covered that up and took a ride and there was no oil on the cap and I still got the spray on the bottom of the hood. It also doesn't seem to happen when I first start it up (i.e. in the garage). I have to take it for a ride and rev it up a little.

It's got to be something higher on the engine, but I can't see what. I took a picture, but I'm not sure it's very helpful. You can see the oil stain on the back of the pulley, and some oil on the edge. Any thoughts would be welcome. A companion question would be whether getting oil on the timing belt is a problem.

[DanD]

That would be from the camshaft seal behind the cam sprocket. Lots of them do this, but usually not in a severe fashion.

The timing belt has to come off, cam gear comes off, and the seal gets popped off. Good time to look at the water pump on a later car, and consider replacing some of the other seals as well.

[AriK]

Cam seal. Start thinking of doing timing belt, tensioner and waterpump as well.

[aj81spider]

Sigh. I guess I have a job ahead of me. It's particularly irritating as the engine is freshly rebuilt by a Fiat expert, and was only reinstalled in the car recently. The only miles on the rebuilt engine are those spent bringing the car up and debugging this problem.

Thanks for the inputs.

[aj81spider]

So a question - when replacing the cam seal, can I do that without removing the cam tower and the cam shaft or has my large job gotten even larger?

[81SPIDERMATT]

So a question - when replacing the cam seal, can I do that without removing the cam tower and the cam shaft or has my large job gotten even larger?

yes you can do it without removing tower or shaft

[KidDingo]

Search this forum for info on correctly aligning the camshafts and auxilliary shaft. You'll want to make sure everything is done precisely or you'll run the risk of damaging your engine.

[ORFORD2004]

Why don't you call back the guy who did the job?

[JerryH]

I agree with Orford2004, you should take it back to the guy who did the work. If you only see the oil on the back of your exhaust cam, it's gotta be the cam seal. Assuming your rebuilder used a new seal, he might have nicked it during installation. It's not a big job to replace the seal, but you do have to take care with the cam timing--as you do whenever you mess with the timing belt. Your builder should do the work, but if you end up doing it yourself, we'll help you through the job.

Bummer to have this issue on your shiny new engine!

[aj81spider]

Unfortunately the builder is a 2 hour drive away (I can only picture what my engine compartment will look like based on what happened after 5 minutes!). Complicating it is that the engine was rebuilt 2 years ago and sat on my garage floor while I did the rest of the car.

If he was closer I'd probably bring it to him. However this will be a good learning experience for me. Ordered the parts from AutoRicambi last night - hopefully they'll be here for next weekend.

[aj81spider]

While waiting for my parts to arrive I thought I would get a head start and get comfortable with what I'm going to be doing. I took the radiator out to give better access to the front of the engine and I pulled the plugs and rotated the engine to approximately aligned with the marks. I say approximately because as the pictures show - there is only one wheel with any kind of real mark. It appears that the exhaust cam has the pointer removed to make room for the air pump extension on the pulley (sorry for the blurry photo):



I can probably get around this by fabricating some sort of marker that attaches to the bracket. The crank pulley is a different problem. The mark on the crank pulley aligns with a mark on the timing belt cover - which of course is off.



What do people align that mark to when the cover is off?

Thanks for the help ahead of time - I'm trying to make sure I understand how I'm going to do everything before I start.

[ORFORD2004]

TDC so piston on the top. You can use a screwdriver in the plug hole. If you have hole in your cam pulley, there is a mark from behind on the cam tower.

[JerryH]

There's a 'pointer' on the backside of the pulleys as well--it is cast into the cam housing.

I'd take a sharpie and make a mark on each pulley and the belt so you can line up the pulleys to the exact same locations on the belt.

Once you find TDC, put the car in gear to hold the crankshaft in place.

It also might be worth a try to not loosen the tensioner bolt. You might be able to loosen the exhaust pulley, replace the seal and slide the pulley back on--engaging the correct teeth on the belt as you slide it on. This may not work, but it would make the job simpler if it works.

[81SPIDERMATT]

finding top dead center is a good way to make sure everything goes back together correctly because you have pointers and points of reference ..... using a sharpie is the same concept but you need to mark the pulley as well as a reference point next to the pulley .. know what I mean ..... I would also ,while the belt is on, loosen the nut holding on the pulley or pulleys that you will be removing as it will help in not moving it .... never tried to remove a pulley with the belt on myself and sounds good in theory but could be frustrating trying to put back on .... myself I would remove the belt .... I know it is worrisome about things moving when the belt is off but fear not ... if they move.. move them back ... most fear that if they sneeze pulleys will spin (ok exaggeration) and all will be lost ... not the case .... take your time... definitely a confidence building repair for sure .... don't guess ... if you need reassurance just ask ... no such thing as a dumb question

[majicwrench]

The infamous "Screwdriver" is NOT a good way to find TDC. It is a good way to get close. Close doesn't count.
Just mark everything well BEFORE removing belt. I use a little white paint pen. Mark the belt, the pulley, and something stationary behind pulley. mark both cams, crank and oil pump. If marks are all lined up when put back together, it is correct.

Putting car in gear will not keep crank stationary. It will keep it close to stationary. Close don't count.

That pulley bolt, I would get a strap or chain wrench over pulley when loosening bolt. The timing belt is not designed to be used to loosen/tighten pulley bolt.

I MIGHT be tempted to try it without loosening tensioner. Have never done it on Fiat but have done similiar on others.