Ring - Ding - Ding Waterpump?

[pressonregardless]

Ok, i've been quite the past few years, doing about 2K miles / year. A month ago, Heading down to Fresno (60 miles) on Hwy 99 all was good, cruise at 65 mph. When I pulled off at my exit to the stop sign, heard a random (think cha cha beat) Ding, Ring-Ding, Ding. Very intermittently, like an infant hitting a bell (or waterpump pulley). I really sounded like the waterpump area, with a resonance like a bell almost. I took a small hammer and tapped the pulley, no sound ike I was hearing. I disconnected the waterpump / alternator belt and started the engine and no sound. It slowly disappeared, driving easy on the way home, but know I hear the Ring-Ding only when I rev about 4200 - 4300 rpm.

Question is, has anyone experienced a non-leaking waterpump making this type of sound? Can it flex enough with bearing ware to allow the impeller to contact something? Is the impeller hitting the waterpump or the engine casting?
Merry Christmas!

[TX82FIAT]

I'm not really sure what to say from the described sound and hope someone on the forum has experienced something similar. To get a ring, ding sound i would think metal on metal in a hollow or partially hollow area. Or detonation. When I had a water pump bearing issue it was a low frequency growling or gravelly sound. Maybe a bearing is lose but I would thing it wouild have more of a frequency resonance because of the RPM than a noticable ring, ding. While repairing something the other day (idler arm) it became very apparent that sounds can travel through metal parts and even seem like the source is different than thought. See if you can use a mechnics stethoscope or similar device to localize the noise. is it a ding or a "PING" noise. Could it be detonation if it sat for a while and has poor grade fuel in the tank. You mentioned you had it in the 4200 - 4300 range. That is close to a push it range where detonation would be likely if poor gas. Was someone reving the engine while you listened with the hood up or was this driving down the highway.

Sorry, just not sure where else to point you with a Ring - Ding Vs a possible Ping.

[pressonregardless]

Thanks for the insight. I thought of detonation or pre-igniton, even though I always pay extra for Shell gas (Chevron once in a while), so I burned a tank and put Chevron mid-grade in. Ping still at the same RPM. I have herd detonation on journeys before fuel injection and knock sensors, and this almost 100% for sure is not it. Remember, I took the fan belt off and rev'd the motor and no Ring -a- Ding, so........ Also, to answer the other question, the sound appears under no load in the drive way with some one else revving it, or under a load on the highway, engine cold or warm, that is why I think it mechanical contact and not in the combustion chamber.
I am just trying to prevent spending money and time replacing a good water pump.

[spidernut]

I'm pretty certain that these motors were rated for premium fuel, not mid-grade. I know for a fact my 2 liter requires premium fuel. You could still have minor pinging.

However, check the air pump if equipped with one. They're notorious for making odd noises and could account for a metallic sound if the pump is going bad.

[vandor]

>I'm pretty certain that these motors were rated for premium fuel, not mid-grade.

These engine has such a low CR stock that they could run on 85 octane. They only need premium if they have been modified with high compression pistons.

If the noise is gone with the belt off then it's coming from either the WP or alternator. You could use a stethoscope to listen to each to determine the location. A new WP is only $40, unless it's fairly new I'd replace it just for the peace of mind.

[bobplyler]

The last time I replaced my water pump, when I took it off it rattled when I shook it. I've never heard of one ringing

[pressonregardless]

My appreciation for the comments and feedback. I've had the car 5 years and since breathing new life into it, it has run fine on 85 octane pump gas. I have a stock (tired) engine that consumes/looses some oil, but...... The 2K we drive her every year, keep a quarte of Shell Rotella 15W-40in back and change it once a year with a Wix filter.

I was hoping with the vast knowledge out there, someone with a 1756cc engine has herd a "Ding - a - Ring" before coming from the water pump / alternator area.

[timinator]

herd a "Ding - a - Ring"

I have heard this type of noise when the cooling blades on an alternator make slight contact with either the tensioning arm, bracket, or bolt/washer attaching the alternator. Usually caused by radial/thrust wear in the alternator. Because the individual blades are not exactly the same, and do not make the same amount of contact if at all, the noise is not consistent.

[GeorgeT]

I'm pretty certain that these motors were rated for premium fuel, not mid-grade. I know for a fact my 2 liter requires premium fuel. You could still have minor pinging.

The Owners Manual for the '82 I had specified 85 octane, not premium.

[Exit98]

Presson,

Timinator jogged my memory (no longer easy to do).

Check the alternator. Mine made that noise when I first got it. Turned out the big lower alternater bolt and nut weren't tight and like he said the fan blades were hitting the casing (or something).

Easy fix once we got it figured out.

On the other subject: Stock compression Spiders work fine with 85 octane. Anything more is to make you feel good.

[pressonregardless]

We have established the is not engine knock, as 85 octane fuel is adequate. I only ran a tank of mid-grade 89 to rule this out.
Thanks "Timinator" and "Exit98", yes this high pitch could be the fan blades on the Alternator. It was replaced with a NOS Marelli purchased from C.Obert & Co. About 2 years ago (aka. 2000 miles). I double checked the bottom bolt already. The occasional "Ring", occasional "Ding" sound like a high pitched bell could be coming from the cooling fins on the fan. I have watched it while some one else rev's the enging and cannot see any contact, but easier to take it off and inspect for contact than the waterpump.

With the decades of experience on this forum, I figured somewhere this had happened before.

[bradartigue]

To test remove the belt. Start the motor. It isn't going to overheat or uncharge in the minute or so of running like this, but don't let it overheat.

[pressonregardless]

EPILOGUE:

We noted that the Ring - Da Ding - Ding - Ding went away with the water pump belt removed. So I finally bit the bullet and changed the water pump. My thinking was there was contact inside the block(side bar: engine runs a bit cooler, go figure) Anyway while I was under to tighten the Alternator swivel pivot bolt and my hand brushed one of the 4 pins that goes through the body halves to hold the Alternator together. It had vibrated loose and at about 4000 RPM the harmonics would cause it to walk out and just touch the cooling fins on the Alternator. When the engine RPM dropped back down, it would vibrate back in. I had my Daughter rev the engine several times and I never could find it. AMAZING! I could not ever find it.

i just wanted to post so some day, some one else will hear a random Ring-a-ding ding.

[Zippy]

Thanks for posting the follow-up detailing what you found. So many posts, asking for help finding a problem, are never followed up with the solution or repair that fixed the problem.

On a side note, I had a ring-a-ding noise on my chevy truck. What I found was the bearing on the front of the water pump failed and it was spitting the little rollers out. When they hit the fan blades it would make the ringing sound.

Al

[opus10583]

Hi,

Something similar happened to me , very shortly after I got my '78: A loose small bolt (it may have been a nut) had found a resting place on the front of the alternator and would just ever so lightly touch the alternator fan with particular g-vectors.

Drove me crazy.

Ciao,
Mark

EPILOGUE:

We noted that the Ring - Da Ding - Ding - Ding went away with the water pump belt removed. So I finally bit the bullet and changed the water pump. My thinking was there was contact inside the block(side bar: engine runs a bit cooler, go figure) Anyway while I was under to tighten the Alternator swivel pivot bolt and my hand brushed one of the 4 pins that goes through the body halves to hold the Alternator together. It had vibrated loose and at about 4000 RPM the harmonics would cause it to walk out and just touch the cooling fins on the Alternator. When the engine RPM dropped back down, it would vibrate back in. I had my Daughter rev the engine several times and I never could find it. AMAZING! I could not ever find it.

i just wanted to post so some day, some one else will hear a random Ring-a-ding ding.