Yet another: 82 FI Won't Start

[Arod2051]

I am looking for a little help in debugging and getting to next steps.

I've lurked on the boards and searched through threads to get me to the point I am at today.

Background: 1982 FI that has been sitting for the last 10 years. It is not starting.

Detailed Background:
1) Fuel looks good (to a point).
1a) Changed fuel filter, fuel pump, and inspected gas tank.
1b) Fuel pump hums when ignition is turned.
1c) Pulled out the cold start valve/injector and it sprays when the ignition is turned, as well.
1d) Did not check fuel pressure at the fuel rail (manifold)
1e) Did not remove/check injectors ( a little nervous about this)

2) Getting spark
2a) Plugs in cylinders 1 and 4 were sparking. I wasn't diligent enough to check 2 and 3, but assumed they would have worked if 1 and 4 are sparking. Spark looks weak, but I really don't know because I am a newbie to automotive stuff.

3) Getting Air
3a) Cleaned out air filter and removed for this debug process. Air Flow Meter (AFM) was not moving.
3b) Disconnected Airbox and left inlet hose open to 'breathe', Obviously, there was no change.

4) Brand new battery Group 34 w/ 800 cold crank Amps.

I was told with fuel, spark, and air something should happen.

Beginner Questions:
- Should the crank turn more than once or twice? On my old 1987, 1998, 2000 Honda Civics the starter was able to crank the engine for a few revolutions if not up to a dozen. When I crank the ignition on 82SPYDY it tries really hard to crank a 1/4 of a turn. I can see the belts moving.
- What should I check next?

Video of the effort
http://youtu.be/KJ5837NQVe0

[RRoller123]

It looks like you aren't getting enough power to the starter, even with the new battery. It should crank over no problem. Probably bad battery connections, or bad starter connections. I would check there first, and see if you can get it to crank over properly. Also you can have the battery load tested at any auto repair shop to be sure it has a full charge on it. That would be a good idea, just to be sure you were given a fully charged battery to start with.

[ORFORD2004]

Your AFM should move freely. Whit the ignition to on if you move the door Inside the AFM you should ear the fuel pump

[majicwrench]

Before worrying about air flow meter or anythign else, engine has GOT to roll over. And over. And over. It should roll over as long as you hold key in crank position.
LIstened to video, your engine is NOT turning over. Pull plugs, add a small bit of oil. Is car stick or automatic?? If stick, I would put it in fourth gear and roll it back and forth a bit. Have you inspected timing belt??
You likely don't have a big socket to put on crank and turn, that would be best. So lube, try to roll in gear to get things moving. Let oil soak.
Starter could also have issues. Do the above, then try to crank again. Then run right out and put hand on cables are they warm??
Keith

[Arod2051]

add a small bit of oil ... Let oil soak.
Keith

Thanks Keith, How much oil is a small bit? Should it be a couple drops, a couple TSP (5ml), or something in-between?

Thank RRoller, I am going to check connections on the starter and battery. I did notice that the fuel pump would hum louder as I toggled the lights.

[RoyBatty]

Clean all the connections at the battery and on the starter.
If the pump hummed louder with the lights on, you have bad grounds and the light circuit is helping to ground the pump.
So, clean the pump connections too.
Also might want to check to see that the engine to body ground cable is installed. On my 75 it runs from the sheetmetal of the body under the drivers footwell to the starter housing.
Good luck.

[RRoller123]

Very good advice about checking for the engine ground cable. Surprisingly missing often (mine was), and then the car uses the clutch cable as the ground and all sorts of bad things happen.

[Arod2051]

Sorry, my post was vague. I toggled the light off and the pump would change its hum as if it were faster.

Regardless, I will take the advice and clean the connections and search for the engine ground.

I did a bit more searching and will find ATF, seafoam, or kano kroil to sit in the combustion chamber for a bit. I was trying to rock the car back and forth in fourth gear, but didn't make much progress. I think I did not add enough oil. Anyway, it was a funny scene.

[majicwrench]

heck add 1/4 cup of whatever. Leave plugs out. Let it sit day or two. Try to turn w starter or push in 4th. Don't work that starter too much like it is in the video or you will burn it up. Barely cranking like that is very hard on it. And do keep battery voltage up, do you have a charger?? If not, have battery charged while engine soaking.
If it wont push and roll engine over, all the checking connections in the world aint gonna make a diff. Concentrate on your problem. Engine wont roll over.

Normal for fuel pump to slow as lights turned on, and pick up as lights turned off. Ignore. Concentrate on your problem--engine wont turn over.

I'm concerned something wrong inside engine. That 1/4 turn may just be to the point something jambs. But first things first.
You really should inspect timing belt. Is that within your abilties??

[Arod2051]

I am soaking the cylinders in MMO. A guy at autozone said that is what he used and that it is just mineral spirits.

Just finished my taxes, so I will take a look at connectors tomorrow or Wednesday.

While I feel I have the capability to change the timing belt, I am certain I don't have the experience to do it efficiently. It would be a lot more reading for me to ensure I don't screw up timing.

[RoyBatty]

Arod, where in Norcal are you?
I would be willing to give a hand if you near the Sacramento area.
Should you be interested that is.

[Arod2051]

Thanks for the offer, Roy. I am in Morgan Hill about 20 miles south of San Jose. It's a bit of a haul from Sacto.

Cylinder 2 had all the MMO drain out so I added a little more. Tried to push-pull in fourth, but I dont really think I am doing much because it's not doing much but rocking back and forth about 8-10 inches. I'll let it sit for another day, or two, while I clean connections. And read up on timing belt change.

[RoyBatty]

I drive that direction to fly with the Tomcats at their RC field there in your area.
Let me know if you need help on a weekend.

[Arod2051]

I drive that direction to fly with the Tomcats at their RC field there in your area.
Let me know if you need help on a weekend.

Roy, I really like that field. I have a small heli with the dreams to learn to fly collective pitch at one point. Those dreams are on the shelf, while I work on my other hobbies. My two boys like to watch the fixed wing guys and the talent out here. PM me the next time you make a trip. I am about 4 miles away. I'd love to pick your brain.

Some weird progress tonight. I read a post from Brad Artigue and he had a great suggestion to jack up the rear passenger wheel and put the car in 4th and turn away at the wheel. I figured, I'd do that to see if the pistons budge a bit. Well, they moved almost freely. I thought it might be the differential allowing the wheel to move, so I plugged the plug holes with an old shirt, hooked up the battery, and tried to give her a crank. It seemed to crank freely. As in, it would happily crank continuously if I wanted to. One of the cylinders popped my shirt up, too. Seeing
progress, I put the plugs in to see if I can make her smoke.

To my dismay, she would not turn except for one or two 1/4 revs. I removed the plugs and she would happily crank away. I decided to clean the ground at the bell housing with sand paper. The other end looks like it was attached to the body with a funky crimp connecter. I did not clean that end. After that, I called it a night. Need to find docs for my tax lady.

Summary: Plugs in = will not crank. Plugs out = cranks.

[RoyBatty]

In the video you posted at the beginning, the starter sounded as though it might be a bit weak.
I have a couple of starters sitting in my garage that work better that that.
I will be in San Ramon on Friday. Would you like to try one of them?