Should I replace my engine?

MatPat001 · Post by **MatPat001** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:59 pm

Hello all,

Last spring I bought my '79 Spider from (user Fiat88, I believe) who had put a few years work and nearly $9,000 into it for $4,800.

After a couple of rough patches early on, the car drives well in short distances, but has a really hard time on the highway. (Overheats & breaks down, not to mention that it really doesn't like to drive at a highway-appropriate speed). I parked it in a family garage for the winter and after a couple of days, there was a massive oil leak (I'm taking my stepfather's word that it was oil), but the dipstick still reads full. I went to move the car and it started up fine, but bellows white smoke. Looking toget it fixed very soon and bring it back down to NY.

I have a range of theories of things that could be wrong with it (head gasket, low engine compression, perhaps too much oil was put into it when I had the oil changed).

I'm pretty good at restoring the interior, body and some minor mechanical & electrical things, but I'm too amateur to really mess around with the engine.

This is the first time I'll really be putting any serious money into it & I love this car, so I'm wondering whether or not I should just go ahead and put a brand new engine from International Auto into it or if I should try to tackle each of these issues separately. I'd love to make it just a bit more practical (I.e. better on longer drives).

Andy advice would be extremely appreciated, even if it's just a recommendation of a good shop in Rhode Island or New York (I live in New York, but I'm storing it in RI for the winter).

SunnySideUp · Post by **SunnySideUp** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:47 pm

Overheats...bellows white smoke...

Sounds like a blown head gasket to me. If that's the issue you probably don't need to replace your engine - just get the head gasket replaced and make sure the head isn't warped. There can be several causes for a head gasket going out - improper installation, cooling system not properly purged of air, incorrect head torque, damaged gasket upon installation, wrong gasket, etc. Start with getting a compression test done to confirm it's a head gasket and go from there. I'd recommend also checking the radiator and all cooling hoses for leaks, too. Getting some air in the cooling system can cause the thermostat to not open and subsequently the cooling fan won't run when it needs to, and then overheating happens.

As for the "massive oil leak" it could be an overfill which may have seeped out of the lower dipstick tube gasket. You'll need to verify where the oil is coming from. Is it engine oil? Transmission oil? If you have a blown head gasket you may see some "milky" residue in the oil from the coolant mixing in the oil. If the oil leak is coming from where the head and block meet the head gasket is probably completely blown out.

Keep us posted on what you find!

aj81spider · Post by **aj81spider** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:50 pm

Between RI and NY is Vernon CT, the home of Fun Imported Automotive Toys. Danny O'Donnell is a Fiat expert and I found his prices to be quite reasonable.

I don't think I'd replace the engine unless there was something fatal wrong with it. You can do an awful lot of work for the price of a new engine.

BEEK · Post by **BEEK** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:52 pm

pm sent

MatPat001 · Post by **MatPat001** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:56 pm

Thank you everyone!

I wish I had the car in front of me, but I'll check this all out soon and get back to you.

The little that leaked after I got back to the scene (and hadn't already been cleaned up) looked like engine oil and there WAS some more milky residue as well.

I was asking about replacing the engine to see if that would be a worthwhile investment to cover off any other issues, but if I can figure these out for now, that'll be great.

Sorry for the "newbie" questions - I'm trying to teach myself, but have had far less time to devote to it than I thought I would, so I really appreciate the help.

majicwrench · Post by **majicwrench** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:23 pm

A new engine will not fix all your problems. There are sooooo many things AROUND the engine that cause the vast majority of breakdowns and issues.
Good luck!

pooldoctorstl · Post by **pooldoctorstl** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:00 pm

A new motor is going to cost WAAAYYYY more than fixing what you have, and unless it had major catastrophic failure, you can fix what you have. White smoke is generally steam and indicates a blown head gasket, as others have said. You may also want to check the cam timing and make sure there isn't air in the cooling system causing it to overheat. Being a 79 you can do a few things like new intake and carb that will greatly improve the power and drivability of the car. But check your emissions laws before you do anything to it. But if the PO spent that kind of money on it, it may have a lot of that stuff done already. I also saw BEEK sent a PM...he will probably have some very good info too.

Good luck,
Jeff

MrJD · Post by **MrJD** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:21 pm

If my engine went, id replace it with a toyota 3sge black top in a heart beat. There are people that would frown on it, but itd be the best under 2k you ever spent... And youd have one of the fastest most reliable 6spd spiders on earth.

ga.spyder · Post by **ga.spyder** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:21 pm

+1 on Danny O'Donnell at Fun Imports in Conn. He is truly a Fiat expert.

bradartigue · Post by **bradartigue** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:45 pm

MrJD wrote:If my engine went, id replace it with a toyota 3sge black top in a heart beat. There are people that would frown on it, but itd be the best under 2k you ever spent... And youd have one of the fastest most reliable 6spd spiders on earth.

And it would never leave your driveway. Over the years numerous people have talked about this engine or that engine swap, etc. and they never execute. The only ones driving seem to be moronic - V8 engines and lift kit kind of redneck.

SoFlaFiat · Post by **SoFlaFiat** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:11 pm

Except for this one which Brad, different Brad...
Has had on the road for 9 years!!

He has posted here and there are many photos and info about the car! It may not be your thing but it is a work of genius!

speedracer · Post by **speedracer** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:35 am

MatPat001 wrote:Andy advice would be extremely appreciated, even if it's just a recommendation of a good shop in Rhode Island or New York (I live in New York, but I'm storing it in RI for the winter).

Welcome to the wonderful, and frustrating, world of Spiders!

I agree with those that think it is the head gasket, which is not the worst thing in the world.

I see your in Brooklyn, so your in luck. The mechanic I used to sort out my 79 Spider used to be located in Brooklyn, then moved to North Carolina, but lucky for me, and maybe you, he has just moved back to Astoria, Queens, which should be a pretty short drive from you. He is very knowledgable with all Italian cars and just a plain nice guy to deal with. He is known as "Alfa Joe". Here is a link to his site. Yes, he specializes in Alfa's but he has no problems with Fiats -

http://alfaimportcenter.com/

MatPat001 · Post by **MatPat001** » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:20 am

Thanks for the Alfa Joe tip!

I'll look him up once I get my car back to NY. Danny O'Donnell seems reluctant to take a look at my car.
I explained what was going on and what I thought the problems were. I also emailed him a full list of everything that's been replaced/repaired in the past few years –a pretty extensive list– but...

MrJD · Post by **MrJD** » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:04 pm

bradartigue wrote:
MrJD wrote:If my engine went, id replace it with a toyota 3sge black top in a heart beat. There are people that would frown on it, but itd be the best under 2k you ever spent... And youd have one of the fastest most reliable 6spd spiders on earth.
And it would never leave your driveway.

Are you saying it would never get done or it would be less fun to drive?

majicwrench · Post by **majicwrench** » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:49 pm

Not sure what Brad meant, I would not speak for him. But odds are, it would never get done. Unless you have done this kind of thing before and have a dang nice shop w equipment and the time, or the money to pay somebody, yeah, it would never get done. I bought a 71 some guy was gonna stick some other motor in, took it all apart, then there it sat.
Then, in most all cases, IF it ever got on the road, it would be a rattling, clanking, banging cobbled mess. I see peoples "projects" all the time. Yuck.

Fiats, the way the rolled out of the factory, are dang nice cars. Quick, smooth, dependable. That's teh way I like em.

This is just my humble opinion after doing this for almost 40 years. YMMV

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