timing the engine

dmwhiteoak · Post by **dmwhiteoak** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:25 pm

I had the engine back together and had the (woodruff key) straight up along with the cams spot on the marks. It would crank and run but run as if it had a dead cylinder. I doubled checked everything and was at a loss. At this point I started over and put #4 cylinder at tdc on the compression stroke and aligned the cams on mark and moved the crank as close as possible to the mark on the belt cover. I am off this mark about an inch when I put the timing cover back on. Now it will not run at all. What is the trick to get it back in time when you don't have proper marks to align the crank without the cover? Here is a pic of the cams aligned.

and here is a pic of the crank pulley mark.

Where am I going wrong?

bradartigue · Post by **bradartigue** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:57 pm

The crank must have the #1 cylinder at TDC
then
Each camshaft must be on the alignment mark
and
The distributor must be aligned so that it is contacting the #4 spark position

You do not need a mark to determine TDC, though it helps. You can find TDC with a long pencil or screwdriver in the spark plug hole, just mark the highest point and leave the engine there, then time the cams. Most people get the cams and crank correct but then point the distributor to #1, which causes the engine to run very poorly (if at all), then go back and start over and over again. Make sure that distributor is on #4.

I usually rotate the engine by hand 2-3 times to be certain I'm not striking the aux shaft and that everything returns to position.

pooldoctorstl · Post by **pooldoctorstl** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:03 pm

What Brad said...and make sure the marks are all lined up when the belt is tight. It may get out of time a tooth or two as you tighten it, so it might take some tweaking to get it right.

Jeff

hayesbd · Post by **hayesbd** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:13 pm

...also, you may want to rely on the cast-in marks on the cam towers - not the front pointers. On my car, the front pointers could be moved all over the place when the mounting screws were loosened, thus allowing for a lot of misalingment when re-tightened.

Here's a good line drawing showing the cast marks: http://www.justanswer.com/car/4xs6y-fia ... pider.html

dmwhiteoak · Post by **dmwhiteoak** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:37 pm

Number #4 cylinder is at tdc on the compression stroke. The cams are aligned on the front pointers along with the marks on the towers. I have been lead to believe that #1 and #4 are at tdc at the same time. I have #4 at tdc now, along with the cams dead nuts on. Brad, if #4 and #1 are not together then I will put #1 at tdc and go from there. I can no longer see the key in the crank as the pulley is already on. The rotor is pointing at #4 with all the marks lined up and will not start. It wants too but will not. What do ya'll think??

81SPIDERMATT · Post by **81SPIDERMATT** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:57 pm

I thought that even though 1 and 4 will be at the top at the same time only one of them is on the compression stroke.... and 1 should be on the compression stroke and rotor pointing at 4 ... is that not right ... would 4 being on compression stroke make timing 180 out ????

dmwhiteoak · Post by **dmwhiteoak** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:14 pm

Matt, That's kinda what I have been thinking. That's the first thing I will do in the morning is put #1 at tdc on the compression stroke and align the cams. Then put the rotor pointing at #4 cyl. Thanks for thinking along the same line.

wizard124 · Post by **wizard124** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:32 pm

I replaced my belt recently. I found I had to start with the crank pulley timing mark about 15 degrees BTDC then turn the crank pulley with a socket and bar to take the slop out of the belt between the crank, the aux shaft, and the intake pulleys. It took some time to get all the marks aligned as they should be. Once the tensioner bearing is tight, turn the crank a few full revolutions to re-check that the marks are still aligned and there is no interference by the aux shaft lobe.

The 2000 has the crank timing marks affixed to the block rather than the cover which makes it a bit easier.

bradartigue · Post by **bradartigue** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:40 pm

81SPIDERMATT wrote:I thought that even though 1 and 4 will be at the top at the same time only one of them is on the compression stroke.... and 1 should be on the compression stroke and rotor pointing at 4 ... is that not right ... would 4 being on compression stroke make timing 180 out ????

TDC for #1 and #4 will be at the same position, and I'll say that at the same I'll say I've had this same problem, then taken the belt off, turned the motor over 180 degrees, strapped the belt back on, and it worked. It's more likely in doing so I remedied some other issue, but I felt better. IF your crank pulley is not on then take it off and you'll likely find a TDC marker on the front seal carrier. Line it up then put the pulley back on. The other way to do it is get a piece of long stuff wire (a clothes hanger) and put it in the #1 plug hole, turn the motor until you think it has reached the high point and mark it, then turn it back and forth a couple of times to make sure it won't go up further. That's TDC.

Point the ignition at #4. Snake the belt back (I'd replace that plastic cam wheel, see below) on, rotate it around 2-3 times by hand and recheck things, then try to start it up. If it does not start turn the ignition slightly one way or the other and try again, I'm talking 2-3 degrees of rotation.

I have another concern though, that phelonic cam wheel you have on the intake side looks like it has cracks in it, even if it does not you're asking for some problems. Those plastic wheels have had way too many heat cycles by now. While you're sorting it out I'd get a metal intake wheel.

dmwhiteoak · Post by **dmwhiteoak** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:20 am

I used a pencil and got #4 at tdc on the compression stroke. Moved crank back and forth to be sure the piston was at the highest point. The plastic pulley has no cracks. I noticed also that it looks like it does in the pic. I do not have another that isn't plastic but will try and find one made of metal. The crank pulley is on so lining up with the key is out of the question. I have tomorrow to get it running and to the muffler shop before I go back to work. If I'm missing something please advise.

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:22 am

the intake pulley does look cracked and even if it isn't I've seen plenty of them with a loose center hub. That can allow misalignment if the hub has moved. If you look at the relationship between the pulley timing mark and the dowel, your intake appears to be different from the exhaust pulley

WYSpider · Post by **WYSpider** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:32 am

hayesbd wrote:Here's a good line drawing showing the cast marks: http://www.justanswer.com/car/4xs6y-fia ... pider.html

I would like to understand this comment more: "Anytime that the belt tension is relieved, the timing belt must be replaced."

Is this true even if you don't start the engine? I.e. you install a belt, release the tension, turn the engine by hand a couple times, slack the belt and reposition the belt?

dmwhiteoak · Post by **dmwhiteoak** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:45 am

I pulled the intake cam pulley and can clearly see that the dowel hole is off the timing mark. If they should be aligned then it has slipped. Here is a pic.

BEEK · Post by **BEEK** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:02 am

that alignment is correct for the intake

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:26 am

compare the angle between the timing mark/dowel with that of the exhaust cam. It may have just been the angle of the photo. Usually the streaks eminating from the hub mean that it's loose

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