She won't start... Fuel related possible...?

[majicwrench]

Good. Now next time you try to start, what are you missing?? Hook up timing lite OR pull one plug wire and attach plug where you can see it. Now crank. Spark?? Good. Did it start?? If no, crack line at CSI. Fuel spray?? Good. Now you know you have fuel and spark at engine. Is fuel getting in?? Pull CSI, crank, see if it sprays, it should spray fuel cold. Does it?? If it does not spray, check for power on one side of CSI connector. Is there power??

If fuel spraying, not dribbling, out from CSI line cracked, pressure is probalby enough to start,

[rlux4]

I couldn't find a liquid pressure gauge at an auto parts store around here, I ended up getting one from a plumbing supply, the kind that serves contractors. It comes in a kit:

I just had to put the barbed nipple on the end to connect to the line for the CSI. The little clear hose is a bleed off.
Ron

[Holshot]

Thanks Ron! That's a great idea... I will see if I can find a plumbing supply shop anywhere near me. Thanks again for posting what worked for you! Also, you say that you used the feed line from the CSI? Is that correct? And what was the procedure that you used? Just cranked and cranked until the gauge stopped climbing?

BTW, To everyone else that have chimed in... I had about an hour to mess with the car and pulled the CSI and while cranking no fuel! Now as I mentioned earlier, I've checked and confirmed the AFM is not an issue, the dual relay has been replaced, while cranking the fuel pump is running. Can I assume that the next thing in the line which tells the injectors to turn on is the ECU? I put power directly to the CSI and it clicked away so that tells me the injector is working/firing when powered. But it doesn't seem to be getting and power when cranking... Brad, if you are still reading, am I correct in assuming that in order to power up the injectors all 3 items are needed, ie. AFM, dual relay and then the ECU? If so would I be wrong in assuming that the next logical step would be to try a good ECU since I don't have the know how or tools trying to ohm them out? Any other recommendations based on what I last wrote on page 2 and with today's new information that I don't have injectors firing?

Thanks again everyone!

[majicwrench]

Look back at my earlier post. If no spray, check for power on one terminal of the CSI Injector.

Next logical step is to check for power at CSI. You have a voltmeter or test light??
You may have inj firing. Don't assume. At this point you know you don't have spray from CSI. Figure out why. One step at a time.
Keith

[rlux4]

Once the gauge is hooked onto the CSI line and the fuel pump is energized the pressure is practically immediate. The signal for the CSI comes from the ECU, how long it stays energized is controlled by the thermo/time switch (in the block, under the intake manifold), Keep in mind that the car will start even without the CSI working, and that it's only energized for a few seconds during cold starts, when the ambient temps are low. Without modifying the fuel rail the rubber line going up to the CSI is just the easiest place to tap into for checking fuel pressure.
Ron

[rlux4]

More thoughts; If it runs when fuel or starter fluid is supplied you have spark and the timing is at least close enough to let it go until the no start cause is found. Have you pulled the hose at the CSI to verify you're getting fuel flow? If you're getting fuel flow then the problem is injectors. They're either stuck closed or not getting a signal from the ECU to pulse. The easiest way to check for pulse at the injectors is with noid light. You can borrow them from auto parts stores that have loaner program. Pull the connector on an injector, put the noid light in it and crank the engine, the light should pulse (flicker on and off). If it pulses then you have bad injectors.
Without reading through the entire thread I can't recall if a link to the diagnostic for ECU/dual relay was given to you, if not here it is. It'll help you zero in on the problem if you have no injector pulse;
http://www.wcmotors.com/personal/Fiat%2 ... agnostics/
Ron

[Holshot]

Thanks Ron, I went and bought a new test light this evening and found my ohm meter so I'll give these test a shot... I did however swap out the ECU as John Erskine was kind enough to lend me one but to my dismay did not solve my issue. The injectors are bone dry including the CSI. I pulled plugs today after getting it started with starter fluid again just to burn up what little oil was left in the chamber from when squirted in a little to protect from starting after so many years. The problem before was anytime I would pull plugs to check for fuel they were covered in the oil... Now that the cylinders have had the chance to burn that off I'm able to get a good look at a clean plug and they are definitely dry, no fuel from any injector.

Agai, at this point one by one I've swapped out the 3 things that are what I've read are needed to turn on the injectors, ie. ECU, dual relay and AFM and the fuel injectors are not seeing power... I'll run the diagnostics listed in the diagrams and hope to find something tomorrow now that I have the proper tools. One question, when running the diagnostics on the dual relay is the key supposed to be in the the on position or cranking while performing those test. I would assume it would need to be but it doesn't specify and that seems odd to me that it wouldn't. I was under the assumption that the relay isn't powered up until the key is turn and cranking. Please let me know if I'm wrong on that.

Kind regards and thanks for all the help!

[aj81spider]

If it hasn't run in a long while are you sure the injectors aren't just stuck shut from the fuel turning to varnish? As mentioned before, make sure there are electric pulses going to the injectors. If there are it may be as simple as needing the injectors to be rebuilt.

[Holshot]

Well the injectors have been tested numerous times with a spare injector harness and directly wired it to the battery and they all click away. When I pulled the CSI and applied the same test a little bit of fuel spit out so I doubt it's the mechanics of the injector that's bad rather no signal getting to it...

[rlux4]

Constant power goes to the injectors, what energizes them is when the ground is completed. This is controlled by the ECU through the dual relay. It would seem that you've checked the components, so just as a verification look to make sure the ground contacts for the injectors are in place and making good surface contact. They're on the two rear, outermost hold down bolts of the intake manifold. Black sheathed wires, each with two ground wires for two injectors.
Ron

[majicwrench]

IF you have fuel pressure, and IF you are energizing injectors or csi with a jumper harness, fuel will come out. If it does not:

You really don't have fuel pressue.

Injector is plugged.

SImple problem at this point. Quit changing parts, running troubleshooting etc. If you have fuel pressure, and if you are firing inj with jumper harness, and no fuel comes out, they are plugged.

[rlux4]

I never had any luck with a test light or a meter checking the injectors for pulse, the signal is very weak and very quick. The best way to check that the signal to pulse is getting to the injectors is with a noid light.
Ron