firearms

[fiat218]

and why do you think that discussion about firearms in hands of citizens has anything to do with politics? it has to do with common sense on the one side, and with people making A LOTS OF MONEY on the other side. what's a couple dozen dead kids every couple years compared to a nice fat bonus every christmas season?

so back on topic, why would you want to have .45acp? it's, as someone stated, bullet hose. completely useless apart for drive-by shooting or a random spraying at your local school? i've fired http://gunwikia.wikispaces.com/%C5%A0korpion+vz.+61 back when i was in the army, and it's next to uselless. we called it keep your head down gun. ACP is the same kind of weapon

because i can oh and BTW it never been fired

[htchevyii]

and why do you think that discussion about firearms in hands of citizens has anything to do with politics? it has to do with common sense on the one side, and with people making A LOTS OF MONEY on the other side. what's a couple dozen dead kids every couple years compared to a nice fat bonus every christmas season?

so back on topic, why would you want to have .45acp? it's, as someone stated, bullet hose. completely useless apart for drive-by shooting or a random spraying at your local school? i've fired http://gunwikia.wikispaces.com/%C5%A0korpion+vz.+61 back when i was in the army, and it's next to uselless. we called it keep your head down gun. ACP is the same kind of weapon

Let's agree to disagree. Almost everybody that I know has firearms and nobody that I know has been injured by one. I do feel that if you are a felon and are caught with a gun or use a gun in a crime, they should lock you up and throw away the key.

[fiat218]

and why do you think that discussion about firearms in hands of citizens has anything to do with politics? it has to do with common sense on the one side, and with people making A LOTS OF MONEY on the other side. what's a couple dozen dead kids every couple years compared to a nice fat bonus every christmas season?

so back on topic, why would you want to have .45acp? it's, as someone stated, bullet hose. completely useless apart for drive-by shooting or a random spraying at your local school? i've fired http://gunwikia.wikispaces.com/%C5%A0korpion+vz.+61 back when i was in the army, and it's next to uselless. we called it keep your head down gun. ACP is the same kind of weapon

Let's agree to disagree. Almost everybody that I know has firearms and nobody that I know has been injured by one. If you don't like it, stay in Serbia. There have been several people stabbed in the local news lately, one died. I guess that knives should be banned?

We can not control the idiots, just ourself that in knowing how to respect firearms

[RRoller123]

Well I am going to leave this discussion now, but it always disturbs me when those of us who just enjoy collecting historic firearms and going to the range to practice the sport of marksmanship (on paper targets) get lumped in with mentally ill mass murderers.

[fiat218]

Well I am going to leave this discussion now, but it always disturbs me when those of us who just enjoy collecting historic firearms and going to the range to practice the sport of marksmanship (on paper targets) get lumped in with mentally ill mass murderers.

I SECOND THAT

[ga.spyder]

I couldn't agree more.I have probably 20 firearms,most working and some antiques that need restored.I am not a ''gun nut'',but believe in my right to bear arms.After reading about the procedure to own firearms in the Eastern Bloc,I would say there are probably way more illegal guns,than legal.The old ""If guns are outlawed,only outlaws will have guns''

[csi2000s]

I'm from Australia and we have very strict gun laws.The only experiences I have had with guns was the odd hunting trip years ago shooting rabbits with a 22 rifle. I was on holidays in Vietman a few years ago and there was a gun range at the Cu Chi Tunnels site north of Saigon. There I was offered to shoot a range of guns, American, Russian and Chinese. I asked the guy which one was the best and he handed me an AK-47 with a full clip. I tried to shoot the target but after a few shots I just said stuff it and went all Rambo and unloaded the whole clip in a few seconds. The guy said 'but you missed' I replied ' I don't care that felt so good!!' lol

[djape1977]

there are illegal guns, but not as many as you might think. penalties when caught having illegal weapon are severe. also, illegal weapons are very expensive.

ak47 - from my experience, and i have stopped counting after my 20th clip, well, you need to know how to use it. if you want to hit something at 200meters, use single shots or two round bursts. at 400m, only single shots. up to 100meters full auto is an option but only if you have the gun pressed against something solid and you press down on it. plus side - frightening penetrating power. we used old decommisioned army 4x4 for target once, bullets went straight tru and on out the other side. 15inch thick tree stump is no obstacle either.

by the way, this penetrating power is one of the reasons i believe that no civilian should have access to such weapons, even with "auto" mode disabled. if you were to shoot an intruder on your doorstep with an AK, bullet wold end up somewhere in the house across the street, and probably in the back door, not the front one.

[RRoller123]

I know I said I was done, but as long as it is an interesting and polite discussion, what the hell.... Agreed on the power issue. I favor the Hollow Point .380 for home defense, and although that is heresy in some circles, it is very important to make sure that the round not only hits the intended target..... but stays in the intended target, and doesn't pass right through and hit some poor innocent nearby, likely one of your own family members in a home invasion scenario. Lots of arguments on this one though.

The general argument regarding more powerful rounds being available to the public (in the US) lies in the fact that one of the primary intents of the 2A was to ensure that the general population had the means to overthrow a tyrannical central government, as they worried may develop in some unfortunate future. De Tocqueville certainly presented a fair future warning to the new American Republic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_de_Tocqueville . Therefore the same weapons that the police commonly have and use are available to the public. Not a pretty thought by any means, but I would suspect that there would have been quite a different set of outcomes in many of the currently rebellious muslim and dictatorship countries had their populations been allowed to be armed with something other than slingshots and Molotov cocktails. I commend the brave people in those lands that commit their lives to a cause where they know they are completely out gunned. May not agree with any of them, but they sure have bravery on their side.

[Martin124]

I enjoy these "gun debates". They are always thought provoking and helpful in understanding the opinions on each side.

I applauded the decision of the government of the day when the "gun buy back scheme" was commenced here in Australia. It followed a shocking mass murder here that horrified the entire nation. Even many of my friends who were gun owners were happy to hand in their weapons. But that was here, and up over is a lot different to downunder.

The idea that banning automatic weapons in the US would result in a wholesale stashing of guns rings true to me. It didn't happen here and apparently not in Europe either. However, I think the depth of feelings from US citizens about their right to bear arms is the reason that banning any type of weapon there simply would not work.

I don't understand why there are not stricter controls on guns in the US though. Maybe someone can help me understand that part of the argument?

[RRoller123]

Yes that is a good question, and deserves an answer. The first part of the answer lies in the fact that the info that is generally purported by the media is largely incorrect. The "universal background check" scheme proposed by the Democrats included a national firearms registry database, and that was the primary sticking point. A national firearms registry enables much simpler confiscation by the government, if that is ever attempted, thus it is opposed. I don't think that outright confiscation would happen here, there would quite literally be civil war if they tried it. It is more likely that they will continue to try backdoor control, through ammo taxes, restrictive licensing, harassment of importers and manufacturers, etc, which goes on today.

A second, and much less widely known issue, is that opposition to the national instant criminal background check system including mental health data has come largely from the mental health medical community, because of their concerns over medical record privacy rights. It is a thorny issue.

But it is a misconception that the laws are not strict here, although it does vary widely state by state. In Massachusetts it nearly takes an act of God to get an LTC. Yet in Vermont, for example, no LTC is required at all, but a check to the national database is made upon purchase of a firearm. The problem really lies with the fact that the current laws are not enforced. There is a 1 year mandatory in MA for illegal possession, but it is never enforced. It is a joke, they plead it out and the perps are back on the street instantly. It is a disgrace.

The real "gun violence" problem in the US lies with urban street gangs, who are not being disarmed, for reasons that escape me. Maybe someone else will comment as to why we put up with it, I just don't get it. Maybe it is the "racism" bogey that so many in the states are fearful of being labeled with.

Not a complete answer to your question, but a start.

[Jimb]

What is very ironic is the US and her allies attack other countries that have weapons they they feel are a threat and could be used against others. Yet there is no limit or control to what an American citizen can own under their right to bear arms.
Makes you think.
Jim

[TX82FIAT]

I think there is a big difference between weapons of mass destruction and firearms. I wish the US would not play the police to the world. It is not a role the majority of Americans want for the government. It is not a role we can afford. It does not help our world view. The break in was the fourth over the last few years in a good neighborhood. As a result I purchased my first handgun a 45 acp. Over 30 years ago I was trained to use an m16 a1. and had only used a firearm as part of military training. I'm glad the decision to buy a firearm was my decision.

If people feel they can get away with criminal activity many will try. I hope they do not try it in my home while my family is home. I am not nearly as strong or fast as I was 30 something years ago. The US will never be taken of by force. We will fiscally self destruct spending money we can not afford on things we can not control.

[ga.spyder]

Well said,Tex! The ''playing police to the world'' is something that really upsets me. If we would stop fighting abroad and keep the resources at home the huge deficits the U.S.has run up, would be wiped out in no time.
It is very interesting to hear how some of our foreign friends feel about this issue.Thanks for posting !

[htchevyii]

Dang it! Spent 10 minutes working on a post and its gone! Some good points, I wish that the US would quit playing world policeman for a while and take care of our own country for a while. We really need to enforce the laws that we have, before making more. Due to prison realignment in CA, prisoners are kept in the local jails that should be in state prison. As a result, the local jails are full and unless you commit a violent crime, you are in and out. Car thieves, burglars and drug dealers are booked and released over and over. It is a felony for a felon to possess a gun or ammo, but they are caught every day. Felons on their third strike, ( law says 3 felonies= life in prison), but instead they get reduced to misdemeanors. Lock them up and throw away the key! They need to prosecute the bad guys instead of regulating the good guys. I am rarely for tax increases, but would vote for one to build prisons in a second! The crooks realise there are little consequences, even if they do get caught. Police response time to my area is 20 minutes. It really is a mess here and makes you glad you own a gun. They are going to release more soon: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/ ... CP20131212
There are many restrictions as to what you you can or can't own in California and there are background checks and waiting periods for any gun. Private sales must go thru a dealer and the dealer must keep the gun for 2 weeks.