Crankshaft seal

[wizard124]

I am tearing into the front of the engine. I am replacing the radiator hoses and thermostat. New timing belt (long overdue on my list). Replace the front oil seals to get at the source of the goop coating the front of the block.

The work is progressing well. I used a new impact driver from Harbor Freight to loosen the camshaft and auxiliary shaft bolts. The camshaft oil seals show no signs of leakage so I am leaving well enough alone there.

Finally got the crank nut off. I used a vice grip chain wrench around the pulley, this wedged from moving with a piece of pipe. Hit it with PB Blaster, used a breaker bar with a short extension.......no go Heated the nut with a propane torch......no go More PB, then used the impact driver with extensions through the front grill.......no go Bought a longer length of pipe to go over the end of the breaker bar........YES BTW, it is standard thread. Some confusion on this from other posts.

I have a couple of questions at this point. The aux shaft housing seal is stuck intact to the block. Is it good enough to use a sealant or obtain a new gasket and sealant. Yes, I'll buy the new gasket if I can find one. I'm not in a hurry. I do have that replacement oil seal.

The other question is the crankshaft seal housing seems really stuck to the oil pan gasket. For those who have gone down this path, what is the best way to pop this off without tearing up the oil pan gasket?

Thanks, Warren

[131]

Why are you removing the seal housings, are the gaskets leaking? You can replace the seals without disturbing the gaskets. I'd be doing the cam seals at the same time, saves pulling it all to pieces again, do them while you're in there.

[RRoller123]

Yeah, a lot of people leave the crankshaft gasket alone and just change the seal. It is problematic getting that stuck gasket off intact.

[wizard124]

Why are you removing the seal housings, are the gaskets leaking? You can replace the seals without disturbing the gaskets.

It looked easier to pull off the housings and change the seal on the bench than with them still on the block. Whats a good technique to pull the seal with the shaft in the way

Not sure if the crank housing is leaking, just want to be thorough. Back to my prior question>>>>Is my best bet, loosening the oil pan so that I can drop it a bit to break the seal to get that housing off

Or , if I can pop that seal off, then the housing would have the clearance to lift up off the oil pan and break free. Please,,, some one chime in with their seal removal technique!

[BEEK]

seals can be removed with a seal puller or a bent screwdriver, i use a regular screwdriver on the seals myself. just a technique i have developed over the years.


https://www.google.com/#q=seal+puller

[131]

Or , if I can pop that seal off, then the housing would have the clearance to lift up off the oil pan and break free. Please,,, some one chime in with their seal removal technique!

In the workshop I used to work in we used a seal tool, since then I've only ever popped them out with a screwdriver. If you do them in-situ, be careful not to scratch the surface of the shaft where the seal runs. If you remove the front seal housing, your next leak will be from the sump gasket.

[KidDingo]

When I did mine, I removed the casing because the gasket was leaking and needed to be replaced.

I seem to recall removing the bolts from the front of the oilpan, and those about halfway to the back of the oilpan, in order to make the oilpan drop far enough to get the casing on and off. If I remember correctly, the oil pan gasket came away without tearing. I might have used a scraper and blade to gently ease the oil pan gasket off the bottom of the casing.

The Brookfields manual says to cut the oilpan gasket behind the front corners. It then says to reuse (or replace - can't remember) the cut portion of the gasket along with a ton of gasket sealant to prevent future leaks.

I didn't cut mine but I did use a lot of gasket sealant and have had to no problems to date.

[wizard124]

Thanks all.

So going back to yesterday's nut removal success, Here was my setup:



I got on youtube this morning and watched this seal removal demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri8xnBnF4yk
To get this:


Even with the seal removed from the housing and more play, I couldn't unstick the pan gasket. I took a putty knife and hammer to cut the gasket to get it off. The housing gasket was torn during an earlier installation,,,,,,,maybe a source of a leak.


The block cleaned up well. Removing the stuck gaskets was a PITA:


Now another question My workshop manual says to cut-to-fit a new piece of pan gasket, use sealant and re-install the crankshaft housing. It also says to lower the crossmember to gain enough room to replace the entire pan gasket. Is this correct? Is there an easier way to replace the pan gasket?

Question #2 I suspect the rear crankshaft seal is also leaking. I was going to fix this when I drop the tranny to fix its 4th gear syncro issue. Now, I am starting to think it may be better to re-assemble the front, timing belt etc. Get that squared away. Then drop the tranny, fix it. Replace the rear main seal. Then replace the pan gasket in one piece at that time.

Question #3: Looking at what I want to accomplish, should I pull the engine and transmission? Would this be easier in the long run Years ago I did this to my '71 coupe, Was pretty easy. Is the Spider more difficult?

[Tobi]

Did you consider to pull the aux shaft and cut the useless lobe off to make it a non contact motor?

[wizard124]

Did you consider to pull the aux shaft and cut the useless lobe off to make it a non contact motor?

Not really, I just figured I would put it back together properly.

[wizard124]

My housing gaskets arrived the other day. Expeditiously, despite the Dallas freeze......thanks AutoRicambi

I pressed in new oil seals. I added some gasket seal for good measure. The crank seal was a different style with ribbed rubber on the housing side and possibly a double edge on the crank side. This pressed in very easily. Anyone have any experience with this type.



The shiny stuff is Vaseline. I thought it would be a good idea to add some lubricant to protect the seal lip at start up.

I still haven't decided about the engine/tranny pull If I remove the flywheel inspection plate and see oil on the front side of the flywheel, wouldn't this confirm a leak from the rear main seal or housing?

[fiatmike124]

I don't claim to have experience with a double lip seal such as that. However, upon close inspection, it appears to me that the visible lip on the installed crank seal may be folded outward. Take a close look if it is not too late just to make sure that it looks right. The aux shaft seal looks o.k. to me. Maybe someone else can weigh in. I would hate to see it leak or be damaged by the sprocket after all that effort.

[wizard124]

I don't claim to have experience with a double lip seal such as that. However, upon close inspection, it appears to me that the visible lip on the installed crank seal may be folded outward. Take a close look if it is not too late just to make sure that it looks right. The aux shaft seal looks o.k. to me. Maybe someone else can weigh in. I would hate to see it leak or be damaged by the sprocket after all that effort.

Thanks for that. I tapped a punch around that crankshaft seal to make sure it was still seated after I had looked at these photos up close. All good as far as I can tell.

[wizard124]

I remembered seeing some cam pulleys in my parts bin. Digging around, I came across pair of these lighter, thinner pulleys. There aren't any part numbers that I can find, just had to compare old and new, side by side:



I installed them loosely to check things out:


I checked the AutoRicambi site. They look to be identical to the ones they sell. SCORE

[wizard124]

I cleaned up the pulleys and got the timing belt fit. It has only been about 33 years since I last replaced a timing belt on a 124

I had to work the crankshaft probably 10-15 degrees BTDC, fit the belt, and then come to TDC to make the belt tight to the intake pulley. I also had to make a couple of adjustments at the cam pulleys. Is my experience pretty typical