Starts but dies when cold

[anothersteveg]

Ok, I'm needing some help. I've got a '77 I'm working my way through and am starting to get frustrated. The car had been sitting for awhile and barely ran when I got it, I don't have much of a baseline to compare it against. It starts and runs for about 5-10 seconds then dies when cold. If I start it enough, eventually when it warms up some it will continue to run.

So far I've:

Removed and cleaned the tank and fuel lines with all new filters. It has an aftermarket electric fuel pump that puts out good pressure.

Rebuilt the carb and have it somewhat dialed in. I've gone through all the adjustments and am pretty confident the choke is set correctly. Weber 32 ADFA with water choke.

Emissions stuff was removed.

Replaced the timing belt and have timing set at 10 BTDC.

Replaced the cap, rotor, points, coil, and condenser. Went to single point set up as per the IAP instructions.

Valve lash is set and close (not perfect but close). A compression check while cold showed 125-135.

It actually sounds really good when it is running. When it dies, it seems like an ignition issue. When I changed over to the single point setup, my Tach stopped working. When I tried to go back to the Dual point setup I opened a can of worms. The wiring is messed up. Things have been spliced and mangled. There is no ignition relay. The plug had a jumper in it that came out when I removed it and I can't seem to figure out where it went? I'm in the process of going through the wiring diagrams but am going to have to pull the entire dash. I've got several bare wires and a couple that have gotten hot and melted/merged. Also several have been changed with different colors. Ugh......

Any thoughts on where to start? The car barely ran before I started the tune up so I don't really know what to compare it with. It's better but still a long way from running good. When it's warmed up I'm pretty close to having it dialed in. Do I need the ignition relay using a single point system?

Thanks in advance

[vandor]

The wiring for the points is super easy. Run a wire from the points (and the condenser, obviously) to the negative side of the coil. Then run a wire from the negative side of the coil to the tach. Done.
You can even use the stock wiring for the tach. Just check on the diagram which color wires go to the negative of the coil and which one to the tach and cut them at the relay and splice them together.

[anothersteveg]

Thanks Vandor. That's what I was thinking and will try it tomorrow. I'll probably skip the relays and just wire direct.

As an example of my wiring frustrations, I had a brown wire come out of the dizzy, it was butt-connected to a green wire that ended just inside of the firewall. There is a brown wire inside of the firewall that is connected to the ignition relay plug (again no relay though), that has been spliced into at least 3 times that I can see so far. As far as I can tell so far, it was cut outside the firewall and left uncapped. I'm pretty sure it is a live wire though because the last inch looks like it was burned.

I did get to the Tach wiring and it looks like a couple of wires might have been shorting/problems. The black/white wires right off the tach are partially burned with exposed wires. Ughh......

Are these just a jumble of wiring problems or is there a central issue I'm missing?

Where is the thermostatic switch for the ignition relay (that doesn't exist)?

Holy cow there are a lot of wires to chase down.

[anothersteveg]

A couple of other things? The tail lights don't work. I replaced bulbs and cleaned the grounds. Did the brown wire thing off the starter. New starter and alternator. All vacuum ports on the carb are plugged etc.

Found 2 head bolts that were stripped. Re-tapped and helicoiled and torqued. If I ever get it running consistently then hopefully these are fixed.

Last week I dropped the pan while doing the timing and all looked well. I goofed on the Aux Oil shaft timing, thank goodness I caught it while turning the engine by hand (that's why I dropped the pan).

It got cold here today and won't run at all. Last week it would go after several starts and engine started to warm, at least that's what it seemed like.

Anyone? Please give me something to check, getting frustrated. A random wire short is the worst thing to track down. Please tell me I'm missing something obvious?

[aj81spider]

I'm no expert - so take this with a giant grain of salt. However if it runs when warm and doesn't run when cold that would be an odd electrical problem. It could be possible that you have a connector very close to the engine that makes a firm contact when warmed up, and intermittent when cold, but that doesn't seem too likely to me.

As a complete non-expert the main difference I know of between running when hot and running when cold is the choke. Not knowing your carb - is it possible to hold the choke closed manually and see if that works?

If it doesn't really run when hot then you can ignore this.

[anothersteveg]

When it dies, it's sudden like the ignition is turned off. The choke is closed and seems to be working like it's supposed to. The car actually starts right up and sounds great for a few seconds, then it just dies suddenly that's why I'm thinking ignition?

[SpecialTool]

Just a couple of suggestions that might help. I've had my '75 since March. She came with a 32ADFA water choke and dual points. It seemed like everything that could be adjusted was adjusted wrong when I got there. The two biggest changes I made to get her drivable were first, dumping the points for a Pertronix Ignitor and replacing the ADFA with a 34DMSA I got from Mark Allison. The points were burned and impossible to find locally, and carb was warped on the base of the body above the throttles causing a huge vacuum leak.

[anothersteveg]

Thanks for the tips everyone.

I think I may have it. I found a couple more places that the wires had shorted, that fixed the Tach. Out of pure guessing, I opened up the carb again and the float was sticking. I checked it before I switched to the single point but I guess there was still some old stuff in the lines that gummed up. Anyway, it works now and starts great! I guess it was just several issues that needed to be sorted.

Now on to the brake/tail lights that still don't work. I don't get the brake light in the center console either. It worked when I 1st got the car, not sure what happened since or when they stopped. I have replaced all the bulbs and cleaned the ground/contacts. I guess I need to double check all that again too.

Any ideas?

Thanks again

[Piccola]

The brake light gets two negative signal.
One comes from the hand brake ( there is a switch under in the center ) and one comes from the brake oil tank .
Behind the radio there is a big connector ( 8 / 10 pin ) . in my '81 the male and the female were not properly together.
Let me know.

[anothersteveg]

I got one of the rear brake lights working. Went back and cleaned the grounds again and it worked! I ran out of time to get the other side but I'm hopeful when I get back home in a couple of days that it will work. The other rear lights are next. As for the brake light in the console, thanks for that info. It's on the list to look into as well and may explain a wire I'm talking about below.

I've got a jungle of wires to sort through but it's slowly progressing. I'm down to just a couple of wires I need to sort. There is a green wire leading into the main bundle that has been cut behind the center panel. No idea where it goes, and it's not hot. At least not with any of the normal switches. I've got several unconnected wires that I'm pretty sure are for the radio (it was removed by PO). Along with these are two wires, one black and one purple, that end in a loop connector. I'm thinking its a ground but can't see anywhere obvious. It's right behind where the radio would sit. I haven't had time to follow them, they disappear into the main bundle. Any guesses? I'm out of town or would post a picture.

Thanks again for the help. I wasn't sure what to think of this car, but I'm really digging it!

[Piccola]

the purple ( Violet ) wire in the center console can be :

- Right speaker but I expect it is together with a Gray wire too.
- Hazardous switch

the black in the center console can be
- cigarette lighter
- radio
- windows switch
- courtesy light

btw, better if u can send a picture

Thx

[anothersteveg]

Woooohoooo!

Got the lights working. It was just simple ground issues. Thank you to all on this site for the previous write ups. I had to go back and regrind/scrape several attach points. The good news is I found a great use for my cheapo HF mini grinder. I took the Better Half out for a quick ride tonight and it is running much better. I've got a lot of little things to do still but the touchdown line is in site.

Going to Seafoam then time the engine again, continue to clean the grounds, and then enjoy the heck out of it while it's still warm here in KC.

[anothersteveg]

And Piccola, thank you for that! I will snap a pic and put it on here. The purple and black ground I mentioned is actually 2 wires that join on 1 loop.

I can't get over the difference as I start to clean the wiring/grounds. On the drive tonight several dash lights began to work. This after cleaning only the rear lights? They are pretty dim still but I'm getting there.

I travel for a living and only have about 12 hours at home this go around but feel like I've progressed. Leaving tomorrow after getting these lights working is a huge deal for me. Now I can focus on sending my starter core back to Auto Ricambi like I promised (sorry it took so long).

[Flatspyder]

Glad u fixed it