Engine Block 2.0L

[recker500]

So I wanted to get opinions on costs associated with taking an empty 2L block and getting to to a ready state. A few months back, not long after getting my car finally running and running fairly well, I was mistfortunate and a timing belt issue led to my engine having a boxing match with itself. 77 1.8L stock to my knowledge. (aside from removing smog equipment and a new carb). I'd like to purchase:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fiat-124-2000-s ... 66&vxp=mtr
and build it to put my 1.8L head on as many before me seem to have done. Not looking for anything super in performance, other than the gain from the 1.8L head on the 2.0 block. I figured if I have to rebuild the current engine, might as well go for the performance upgrade of the bigger block.

I suppose what I am looking for is A) given our regular parts sources, would I be able to find all of the internals fairly easily? and B) any estimates on total for all of the components? Nothing exact and nothing performance really desired. Just a basic build. My head will certainly need to be rebuilt as well but mostly just trying to decide on if this block would be worth purchasing or if I should just stick to my 1.8L. Also, as far as the block swap and whatever internals are chosen, is it possible to make the engine non-interference?

Thanks all!

[So Cal Mark]

a non-interference motor would require flat-top pistons with the larger valve reliefs. The problem on a 2L is the aux shaft. Mis-timing there can cause interference with the aux shaft and crankshaft. The only non-interference motors were the late 1800s that had the larger valve relief pistons.

[recker500]

Thanks Mark. That's good info to know.

I will likely just stick with my current engine if it's salvageable. I emailed you a few months back when this first happened to inquire about a rebuild. Since then life, has taken my focus away from the car but I jumped back on it the other night. I've removed most of the accessories from the engine, and so far found that my worst fears may be true. I have not taken the head off yet but just upon removing the carburetor, I see metal shavings everywhere on the bottom side of the carb and inside the intake manifold. Not to mention chunks of some sort of ring. I'm not sure what but I will have to post pictures later for the Experts.

Would it take the same components you mentioned in the previous post to make my 1.8 non-interference? (It obviously is not one of the lucky ones unless something literally just broke inside but I'm pretty sure it was a timing issue). I am a big fan of that idea even though I know that a properly maintained timing belt should put that worry out of my mind. I figure since my engine needs to be rebuilt, if I can throw that in there as a bonus, it would be worth it.

I still need to drain the oil which I will do in the next day or two, and then I will be able to pull the head off. Then I will have a better idea of just how much damage has been done.

[recker500]

Well, Didn't take the head off yet. Drained the oil and got rather depressed after removing the spark plugs...
#1 Covered in oil... not terrible but terrible...


#2 Getting darker... still covered in oil...


#3 You're scaring me a little... Gunk and oil now...


#4 Took all I had to remove the thing... After seeing what the Gremlin inside my engine did to it, I understand why...



Soooo... I use my light and take peek down each hole...
#1 metal shavings... oil.
#2 looks clean but oil must be there because it was on the plug.
#3 See #2
#4.... well unless aliens landed their flying saucer inside my engine, and I am really hoping that is what happened... but just in case that is not what happened, I believe I have proof that Gremlins do exist! Or...maybe it is just my valve sitting sideways on top of the piston...


I will see if I can take the head off tomorrow. Should make for some good pictures to let everyone see what happenes when an interference engine...interferes...

[So Cal Mark]

I'd guess it broke the head off a valve. That can destroy the piston, block and head. FWIW, despite the potential for interference, I'd go with a 2l if you have access to one. They just make great street motors. I'm not aware of anyone making the flat top pistons with the larger valve reliefs these days. Most owners want the higher compression. You can get custom pistons made, but they're pricey and don't do much for performance

[131]

I will see if I can take the head off tomorrow. Should make for some good pictures to let everyone see what happenes when an interference engine...interferes...

It still wouldn't convince me to build a non interference engine. Having a low compression gutless slug because of the rare occurrence of belt failure just isn't worth it. Fiat built millions of these engines and it only seems to be in the US that interference engines are a concern to people.

[divace73]

I've go to agree with 131, maintain a 2L well and you'll have no problems, if using an electric fuel pump you can cut/grind off the mech fuel pump lobe which will elimitnate the no.2 rod issue

[Holshot]

I've go to agree with 131, maintain a 2L well and you'll have no problems, if using an electric fuel pump you can cut/grind off the mech fuel pump lobe which will elimitnate the no.2 rod issue

Hey David,

Bringing back this thread from the proverbial dead and hoping you could chime in... Can you (or anyone else) clarify or provide more detail to what you are referring to with your post.

Kind Regards,
Giuseppe

[narfire]

divace73 wrote:I've go to agree with 131, maintain a 2L well and you'll have no problems, if using an electric fuel pump you can cut/grind off the mech fuel pump lobe which will elimitnate the no.2 rod issue

What I believe it is referring to is at the end of the aux. shaft there is an eccentric lobe that drove the mechanical fuel pump. If it is not lined up properly when you put the timing belt on, the lobe could interfere with the #2 rod end and break the end of the shaft/lobe off or worse blow the side of the block out.
Some, myself included, have cut the lobe off as I have an electric pump with the FI engine. One also has to plug the oil gallery in the shaft after cutting either by drilling out the hole to put the plug back in or better, drill-tap-and screw a pug of sorts in.
Chris

[Holshot]

Thanks Chris! While I've got your attention was the shaft then balanced after removing the lobe? I would imagine so... No?

[BEEK]

no it is not ballanced

[Holshot]

Hey Beek, wouldn't it need to be...? Wouldn't this cause vibrations and generally not good for a motor?

[BEEK]

imho, if i designed the engine i would ballance it, but there are no ballancing marks, ie drilling or machining to ballance on the part, the small diameter of rotation and lack of weight most likely would have no real effect on the ballance of the engine, it is not a ballance shaft, just a short hollow shaft intended to drive the oil pump , block mounted distributer and mechanical fuel pump. that being said, the ecentric which drives the fuel pump would be the makor cause of any imballance in this shaft. by removing the drive for the fuel pump, you would make it closer to ballanced.

[fiatfactory]

'