seat belt questions

[btoran]

i purchased a 1975 124 and would like to change the front lap belts to something safer and add rear belts (i've got 2 little children that will very occasionally ride in the rear). i've found several old posts that suggest upgrading to fixed 4 point belts, instead of adjustable 3 point belts and have a few questions.

1. in a 4 point system for the front seats, i assume 2 of the attachment points are on the floor (one on either side of each seat. where are the other 2 attachment points? are they on the floor behind the front seats or somewhere else?

2. if i install a 4 point system on the front seats, can i still install a 4 point system for the rear seats? if so, where do those attachment points go?

3. does anyone have pictures of 3 or 4 point systems they installed on front and/or rear seats?

thanks.

[azruss]

the factory 3 point system, the shoulder belt reel is behind the back seat. there is actually a slot in the upholstery for it. It will definitely be in the way for any toddlers with car seats in the back. A floor mount is a bad idea for a shoulder belt. It wont hold you from going forward, it will just pull you down. (my back hurts just thinking about it ). Every 4 point system i've seen mounts off a roll bar or cage. When my kids were young (before the invention of the car seat), I mounted lap belts in the back.

[westy64]

the factory 3 point system, the shoulder belt reel is behind the back seat. there is actually a slot in the upholstery for it. It will definitely be in the way for any toddlers with car seats in the back. A floor mount is a bad idea for a shoulder belt. It wont hold you from going forward, it will just pull you down. (my back hurts just thinking about it ). Every 4 point system i've seen mounts off a roll bar or cage. When my kids were young (before the invention of the car seat), I mounted lap belts in the back.

Russ,

there are no upholstery slots in a 1975 seats... they came on later cars.
I have a 4 points system with the two central belts passing under the headrest, and bolted under the upper rear seat.
not very convenient for rear passengers.
not dolce vita at all, for front passengers (my wife cannot lower her window when belt is fastened).
without a roll bar, I have no other solution, so far.

[btoran]

Westy64 - is the 4 point system uncomfortable for you as a driver? Ae you able to ahift, etc without any problems? were you able to use the factory holes to mount the front 2 points?

[Exit98]

I want shoulder belts in my 76. The plan is to install the roll bar and mount the shoulder belt to the bar. I've seen it done. Otherwise you'd have to source the anchor plates from a later spider and weld them to your rear bulkhead. Then you'd need a rear seat back from a later car too. That means matching up upholstery and so forth.

[supplyguy]

Doug - I got lucky. Sourced three point belts from someone here on the forum, a late model upper back seat (and two real nice front seats) from one of your NJ Fiats colleagues, and Capt. John Erskine welded them in for me. Couldn't be happier with the setup. Putting toddler belts in the back though......complicated.

[westy64]

Doug - I got lucky. Sourced three point belts from someone here on the forum, a late model upper back seat (and two real nice front seats) from one of your NJ Fiats colleagues, and Capt. John Erskine welded them in for me. Couldn't be happier with the setup. Putting toddler belts in the back though......complicated.

Lucky spider driver living close to the Captain's area...

[westy64]

Westy64 - is the 4 point system uncomfortable for you as a driver? Ae you able to ahift, etc without any problems? were you able to use the factory holes to mount the front 2 points?

It is a little uncomfortable because it was set up and cut for the PO use (rallye use).
Once fastened, I can shift and drive, but it is not easy to move the choke, for example.
It uses factory holes all around.
I plan to replace this harness by a newer and softer one.

[btoran]

Westy - thanks. Which model are you looking to replace it with? Do you ave any pictures of the attachment in the rear?

[westy64]

Westy - thanks. Which model are you looking to replace it with? Do you ave any pictures of the attachment in the rear?

I haven't identified it yet.
I have seen 3 points harnesses with a lock that allows you to rock the seats to the front of the car, but unfortunately this model is not a 3 bolted points, so I keep searching.
here is what I found so far :
http://www.oreca-store.com/harnais-spar ... etons.html
this one would be ok as it has the back "lock" that I want, but the front points are not to be bolted.
front points are "musketons" that will need more space to be fixed, and I doubt I will have enough space on both sides.
I would like front points like this one :
http://www.oreca-store.com/harnais-spar ... nnees.html
I will try to ake pictures of the rear attachments (simply bolted to the original rear belts holes).
still searching...

[phaetn]

This post is very intriguing to me. I am looking to buy Marcus's 1974 124 Sport and it only has lap belts on the front.

I would like to get something better for the driver, and add a couple of lap belts for the rear. A three point retractable belt sounds like a real pain because of having to weld in the bracket and then having to buy a package shelf backrest with pass-through slot for the belt itself and the cutout for the recoiler assembly/bracket. Then you're getting into colour matching issues unless all seats are replaced.

I like the idea of that three point harness, like the Sparco in the first link, with the latch/buckle for the rear to allow for the seat to be tilted forward. I wonder if there's a spot to mount that just behind and under the rear back rest. That way, if the kids are in the back for a very short jaunt (again, I'm aware of the safety issues, I had an overly long diatribe about it the other day), then unbuckle the shoulder restraints so there's not a strap bisecting their head, and only use the lap belt part. It's not ideal, but equivalent to the original lap belt (prob. better given the new webbing).

It would also allow for the mounting of belts in the back without too many mounting holes/plates all around the same spot.

Westy64 - any pics of what have have now or are still thinking of doing would be much appreciated!!

Cheers,
phaetn