New Spider Build: Challenge a Lotus Exige

General chat about the car goes in here.
vandor
Posts: 3996
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 1:23 pm
Your car is a: 1971 124 Spider
Location: Texas, USA

Re: New Spider Build: Challenge a Lotus Exige

Post by vandor »

Hi,

It's great to hear about such a project! First of all, you might visit the turbo124 forum, several guys there have ~400 Hp FIat 124 Coupes. I believe most of them use the later Fiat 16 valve head and a turbo. So the block should be able to take the power. You would need forged rods and pistons, doweled flywheel with upgraded flywheel bolts (we carry them).

For transmission consider the Mazda 6 speed, or I think Borg-warner makes a 6 speed, maybe the T-56? You'd definitely need a limited slip.

You are starting off with the 'wrong' body, as the Pinin is the heaviest of the Spider bodies. Most of the extra weight is removable, but some of it is not. I doubt you could get a street Spider much below 2000 lbs. It all depends on how much discomfort you are willing to put up with :-) [Lack of insulation. top, etc] You should also consider body stiffening so the suspension works better. I have some ideas, send me a PM if you'd like to discuss.
bye,
Csaba
'71 124 Spider, much modified
'17 124 Abarth, silver
http://italiancarclub.com/csaba/
Co-owner of the best dang Fiat parts place in town
burgandy81
Posts: 371
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:38 pm
Your car is a: 1981 FIAT Spider 2000
Location: Victoria, BC

Re: New Spider Build: Challenge a Lotus Exige

Post by burgandy81 »

Hi,

This is my kind of madness!!

I am working on a very low budget version of your idea with lower ambitions BUT I have been thinking dreaming about it for several years. So far my car has; MS installed, suspension done (konis, IAP springs, 25mm front bar), big brakes installed, next is power adders. My timeline is very slow and I will be watching your build intently.

A couple of thoughts from my recent obsessions;

Be sure to look into Lancia Integrale 8V performance literature before you dismiss the original Fiat engine. The Integrale engine is an evolution of the Fiat block and many parts are interchangeable. Turbo pistons are readily available as well as extremely high end engine internals. 300+ hp is achievable. Try Guy Crofts website for some excellent examples, mostly in the UK and Europe.

An Eaton M62 or M90 supercharger may be an interesting choice for power adder. I have an M90 on the shelf that I hope to start working on this winter. Lots of low end torque and enough volume to breath serious Hp. I you can live with some lag, a turbo may be slightly easier to install.

Megasquirt can be a little more difficult to get up and running that Internet Wisdom may have you believe. Mine is running well now but took a LONG time to get settled down. Having said that, it is extremely flexible and the online community is very helpful. Of coarse, if you have already done it once it will be straight forward.

One variant of the Chevy s10 4*4 came with an offset rear differential. Using 2 short side axles will give a rear tack width within an inch of the stock spider and a 8" GM diff! Lots of ratio choices as well as LSD. This will however leave you with a live rear axle.

Since the car is apart you may want to think through a modified cage set up that will stiffen the shell. The racing community may be able to provide some excellent insight into this.

Again, sounds like a huge amount of fun!

Cheers,

Jordan
User avatar
engineerted
Posts: 531
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:57 pm
Your car is a: 1974 124 spider
Location: Farmington Hills, MI

Re: New Spider Build: Challenge a Lotus Exige

Post by engineerted »

Fisrt off, the spider is a great car, but to compete with the lotus. I would look at an x1/9 with a 2l turbo engine. Now read thru this thead.

http://fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic.php ... CCA#p80772
Ted
1978 124 Spider, Complete Restoration
1974 Fiat 124 F Production Race car
User avatar
azruss
Posts: 3659
Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 12:24 pm
Your car is a: 80 Fiat 2000 FI

Re: New Spider Build: Challenge a Lotus Exige

Post by azruss »

I'm thinking of all the body mods needed to pull this off and you still wont handle like the lotus. I would be looking at going mid-engine and put a firewall right behind the drivers seat.
User avatar
4uall
Posts: 4145
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:09 pm
Your car is a: 1980 Fiat Pininfarina Spider 2000 F.I.
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: New Spider Build: Challenge a Lotus Exige

Post by 4uall »

Jay

Fiona
1980 FI 2000 Spider
ITZEBTZE

https://goo.gl/photos/eNKaX7hrXhBu9fmp6

FINN (FN-2187)
2014 Jeep Wrangler Sport
MYTHERPY
jasonboes

Re: New Spider Build: Challenge a Lotus Exige

Post by jasonboes »

Basically The Spider Is All I Have In The 4Cylinxer Category To Compete With It. so That Is What I Am Trying With. And For Some Reason My Phone Is CApitalizing Everything. Lol.
User avatar
divace73
Posts: 1380
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:59 am
Your car is a: 1980 Fiat 124 Spider Silver
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: New Spider Build: Challenge a Lotus Exige

Post by divace73 »

Hi Jason

here are some serious go fast bits somebody OS is working on to be availabe for our cars http://www.turbo124.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12081 that may help you on your quest.
A 6 speed with final 1:1 and 5.3 ratio LSD diff with a high power unit has got to make any car very quick...

Just be sure to update up with pics please, I'm really looking forward to your project. If you can get it to the state you desire, this car will be famous world wide :) .
Cheers
David
Cheers David
-=1980 silver Fiat 124 Spider=-
If you want to see pics of my car (and other random stuff) >>click here<< OR
see my >>You tube channel<<
jasonboes

Re: New Spider Build: Challenge a Lotus Exige

Post by jasonboes »

It's too bad it looks like it can't sit lower!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4KWCiSquvs

Jason
User avatar
ga.spyder
Posts: 3478
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:19 pm
Your car is a: 1982 Spider 2000
Location: Blairsville ,Ga.

Re: New Spider Build: Challenge a Lotus Exige

Post by ga.spyder »

That may be the ugliest Spider I have seen. :shock: The square exhaust and roll bar,wood dash...ick!!I guarantee you with that lump in the front and the jacked up suspension,a Exige would blow that thing off a road course.Might beat the Lotus in a 1/4 mile though.
Craig Nelson

1982 Spider 2000...pride and joy
1981 Fiat X1/9..gone but not forgotten
1976 124 Spider..the self-healer
2001 BMW 328ci daily driver and track car
Fling It Around Turns !
burgandy81
Posts: 371
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:38 pm
Your car is a: 1981 FIAT Spider 2000
Location: Victoria, BC

Re: New Spider Build: Challenge a Lotus Exige

Post by burgandy81 »

The Ford v8 Spiders don't really do it for me either. Something just "feels" odd about the combination. So.......

Some great Fiat 124 (and variant) inspiration;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScbROj6tSN4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=e ... K49tqfB-ag

Absolutely savage rally spec 131 with an s200 engine and tranny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeeCnMv7d6E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhJWRufvYcY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq0O9BJMrAM

Someone needs to do this to a Spider and I think it should be you!!

Can't wait to see how it goes.

Cheers,

Jordan
jasonboes

Re: New Spider Build: Challenge a Lotus Exige

Post by jasonboes »

I wonder if this head would work out? Or any of these?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-1-8-16V- ... 53f84b81ef

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-COUPE-2- ... 232a25b1d7

Really wish this one would work the price is great!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Bravo-Cy ... 4172d133be

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-TIPO-199 ... 5d3675e1c1

This one is a whole engine. Might be easier. How to get these here is the biggest question.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-COUPE-19 ... 2ec78e2d30
User avatar
divace73
Posts: 1380
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:59 am
Your car is a: 1980 Fiat 124 Spider Silver
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: New Spider Build: Challenge a Lotus Exige

Post by divace73 »

you have to be careful with 16V head you get for our blocks, I'm fairly sure (but not certain) the bravo is not the same engine, I think from memory the bravo was 'based' on the old 128 engine??
The 'older' 2L with the 16V heads fit our blocks but the firewall will need some mods for the water outlet as it is at the rear of the head.
Here is a guy on Oz that has a replica Group 4 16V Abarth that may give you some ideas http://www.turbo124.com/forum/viewtopic ... lit=group+
Cheers David
-=1980 silver Fiat 124 Spider=-
If you want to see pics of my car (and other random stuff) >>click here<< OR
see my >>You tube channel<<
jasonboes

Re: New Spider Build: Challenge a Lotus Exige

Post by jasonboes »

I agree the 5.0 Fiat was kinda done in poor taste. And I wouldn't consider it because of the front heavy non-handling aspects I have to confront. I think that this summer I am going to work on handling and body issues at the track and just add a 50hp shot of NOS. Lightening the load from the car should help a lot too. Then over the winter I will work on the engine and trans. I have been doing a lot of reading on using E85 and it looks pretty promising to get to around 300hp. I'm thinking 12:1 with a supercharger and E85 might make good power. Custom Megasquirt and some big injectors would be needed, as E85 takes about 30% larger parts. Getting a 16v head that could work would be awesome but I don't know if I could get one easily here.

Jason
Holshot
Posts: 268
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:53 pm
Your car is a: 1982 TURBO Spider 1979 Spider
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: New Spider Build: Challenge a Lotus Exige

Post by Holshot »

I vote for a TURBO build! :D Good luck regardless which ever road you decide to go down and keep us updated!
Giuseppe

1979 Fiat Spider
1982 Fiat Spider TURBO
1984 Pinninfarina Spider (gone but not forgotten)
jasonboes

Re: New Spider Build: Challenge a Lotus Exige

Post by jasonboes »

I made it out to my other shop this weekend. Was going to get the Spider started up and make to two hour drive to my shop by my house. Well when I went to start it the thing wouldn't crank. So after giving it a quick check I see that the starter has ceased to function anymore. :) So I will be going back down there to fix it this Friday. I didn't have time to take any photos but I will post some this weekend.
This summer it looks like I will be putting a new top on it. I will also not buy a starter but rebuild one. Autozone couldn't get one. Auto Value had to order it and it was $400. Vick Autosports was $180 plus a $100 core. So the route of rebuilding it for about $50 sounds like the best choice for me.
So I have to ask, does anyone want a write-up on how to rebuild a Fiat starter? It would be a good time to do one.
Also I just thought I would mention that I have the Fiat factory service manual. I would be willing to copy and mail sections of it for a small fee to pay for time and materials. Plus I would put it all toward building this Fiat to the goal.
Hope everyone had a nice weekend!
Jason
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