The Terrible Tragedy in CT, and what do we do about it?

[RRoller123]

It is time that we started a national dialogue on the levels of violence in our culture and the need for reasonable speech regulations. The wrong amendment is under attack after this terrible tragedy in Ct. A big part of the problem as I see it is this notion of the "gun culture" that we are told we have in the US. My understanding of the gun culture is that it is actually a bunch of old farts like me that like to go out and shoot skeet and trap on a Saturday afternoon with our buddies, or maybe compete at an indoor target match with .22 on a Thursday night. The REAL notion of the gun culture is a creation of our Hollywood and media elites, who have bathed the US in a tidal wave of violence and filth for many decades. From Saw to Hostel to Tarantino, to repulsive post-menopausal rock stars spreading their legs and grabbing their crotches on stage, to the general debasement of women in the music industry through violent lyrics, to the awful content in video games etc. that we submerge our youth in. They have endlessly attacked our culture and religous institutions for decades. We reap what they sow. Being a small c conservative, I tolerate their right to produce this endless stream of filth because I value the first amendment, (and all the others as well.) But if we really want to get a hand on these horrible tragedies that seem to occur all too regularly, we need to get resources into assisting the identification and treatment of the mentally ill. The common thread from Columbine, Virginia Tech, Oregon to Gabby and this terrible tragedy is the mental illness factor. We need to address what the stimulii are that drive these poor souls over the edge and into this terrible behavior. Our Hollywood cultural elites need to do some serious soul searching and decide if they want to continue to prostitute themselves to what they seem to think is the only thing that sells. They bear a large part of the guilt for the violence that plagues us in the US. They control pretty much every newspaper, every TV station, movie studio, TV studio, magazine, music studio, video game company etc with a few small exceptions like the WSJ, and they are as guilty of fostering this environment as anyone. It is time we held THEM accountable for the rancid cesspool that our culture has devolved into. I suggest that we start the national dialogue by writing to our Senators and Congressmen and demand that they hold hearings to address this culture problem. There can't actually be anyone out there that actually believes that this terrible CT tragedy would have been averted if firearms magazines held 10 versus 15 rounds? That is just nonsense. The answer has been staring us in the face for decades, but the whores in the media have successfully diverted attention from the true cause of this cultural disease we are afflicted with. It is time that we held them accountable. Support reasonable speech controls on the First Amendment. Help stop the promotion of violence in our culture by the corrupt media whores.

[Gunsmith]

Well you will certainly get a rise out of few people with this post I am sure. In this tragedy as in any type of tragedy before it everyone wants someone or something to blame. It is far easier to blame an inanimate object rather than any person or group actually taking responsibility for their part in bad things that happen. Most people and most of the media are completely ignorant when it comes to how firearms operate, what a projectile does when it leaves the barrel, how fast century old firearms can be fired and reloaded, who owns them and why, where we would be without them etc. Hollywood has indeed convinced most of America that firearms have a life of their own and most people that own them are just ticking time bombs.

In horrible times like this it is unfortunate that so many will be willing to give up the rights of many for a false sense of security that will fade when reality sets in one day.

[narfire]

Jeff. From what I got out of RRoller 123's statement was that the firearms themselves are not entirely to blame. There has been a fall down in the help/treatment/identification of the mentally challenged for a lack of better words. The media and the programming on the tube has degenerated to a pile of tripe and crap. In todays comic strip,even "Blondie" has made fun of the crap on the tube.
From up here in the current cold, there is not a huge difference in the firearm culture, In Canada and most if not all other, democratic countries, owning a firearm is viewed as a privilage and not a right. Same as a drivers licence is a privilage. That does not stop me or anyone from going through some checks and hoops to possess or purchase just about any firearm I want. There are exceptions here of course, assault weapons are prohibited unless you might have purchased one years before the new(er) rules were put in place. Automatic weapons are prohibited , shiriken are prohibited as are collapsable battons. I can purchase just about any handgun that is out there, just have to go through some hoops to get the privilage of owning one. In certian circumstances I can get a carring permit as well, my brother has/had one when working in the bush as a geological engineer.
The dialoge I listen to on the radio regarding this and other tragedies,even the slaughters we've had here in Canada, Scotland, Norway, it came back to somehow identifying the people that could follow through on these diplorable acts. In my opinion,banning firearms is not the answer, if one wants one bad enough, they are available. 30 years ago when in a logging camp , I was offered one or the whole box of 1911A1's still in the wrapping...(my hand gun of choice if that matters) ,I would have had 3rd degree burns if I touched them.
Making firearms more of a privilage and have some checks in place when applying for a permit might help and also perhaps be viewed as a filter or first step in preventing people that should not have legal access to the things.
I suspect because of the victims this time, there might be or I hope there will be a real wake up call in the mental health sector of our supposed civil scocietys.
Chris

[giuliot60]

Yes. There are many things that must be considered as we move forward.

I think Joe Scarborough is on the right track.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/#50222624

G.

[RRoller123]

Amen to both of you. I agree completely. It is almost like we live in "The Matrix", manipulated by a hopelessly corrupt, selfserving media. If one stands back and takes a clear look at the situation, it is prima facia obvious that the debasement of the culture (any culture) will provide stimulii that can push some people on the edge over. I think it no coincidence that our violent popular media matches our violent public outbursts with some correlation, just as it does not in countries with a less violent popular culture. It is the media and Hollywood elites who need to have their feet held to the fire over these sorts of tragedies, imho. Besides, there will be civil war if they were to ever try to disarm the US population. This is no hyperbole, it just wouldn't happen without armed resistance.

[TX82FIAT]

I don't own a gun. I do have a marksman qualification badge in a trunk someplace. This horrible tragedy in CT is something that pulls at ones heart. The cold methodical approach to killing innocent 1st grades as well as anyone that was in front of you. I think it is a sound argument to say that our culture (media, sex, violence, even video games) is producing people desensitized to reality. If you can not wrap your mind around reality then you can not wrap your mind around the real consequences of human life and loss. There is a lot more to discuss about our cultures role in valuing Life. I'm not opening this wormhole. Rather, it is respect for others on trial. At times when talking with my kids I am amazed at how narrow thier argument is because they can not see beyond what they personnaly want. They want what they want and the hell with the rest of the world or any standards if it interferes with what they want. The more we as a culture break down the walls of a cival society the more we will have people acting outside of the long established norms.

If anything, I want my right to bear arms open to me more now than ever. As more people move away from a culture of "do for others" and into a culture of "self indulgence". More people will do what they want and not what is right. Therefore, a parent protecting his/her household/family may find themselves in a situation that requires a firearm. I've been considering buying a sidearm for about a year now looking at thinks like home invasions. If I buy one, I pray that I will never have to use it.

This is not about gun control. This is about self control, living to serve others not living to serve self. Because when you view yourself as the world, everyone else is just taking up some of your space. When you view yourself as part of many communities (school, work, neigborhood, friends, church, car clubs) you are willing to accepts certain realities. I fear we have more mental health issues today because we have more narcissistic personalities formed by a culture of self indulgence.

[Gunsmith]

This debate will probably go on until the internet goes down, printing presses stop and people can no longer speak. Saying we should give up our rights of self protection for a feel good solution that only helps criminals or the criminally insane is no answer or even the beginning of a solution. I understand those that have not grown up in our country do not understand why Americans hold the 2nd Amendment so dear but it is more important to understand that we do. Banning firearms does not make them evaporate which is what most people envision when they think of something being banned. We should all agree that only law abiding citizens obey laws so any such laws could only affect those that would not commit a crime in the first place. Even if there was a prohibition on the manufacture of all firearms and ammunition today it would solve nothing. There are already hundreds of millions of guns and trillions of rounds of ammunition in America alone not to mention was is illegally manufactured in other countries for export to bad people. So yes the bad people will still get them. Keep in mind firearms are even made in prison so then what? Creating gun control laws would only make criminals out of people that would not have normally been in that position. The real problem is as stated in the first post, our family unit as we knew it has been destroyed. Countries with strict gun laws don't have lower gun violence because of fewer guns it is because of strong family units and or severe penalties for crimes. I could go on forever but I would beware of politicians that want to take away your rights so you "feel" safer. Does anyone think bad guys are going to be turning anything in? If more potential victims were armed there would be fewer victims.

[4uall]

to answer your question "The Terrible Tragedy in CT, and what do we do about it?"
(each person, I suspect would have their own answer) this is my response

whenever an event this trajic happens the very first thing I do is look inwards. Am I doing the best that I can do?, am I being the best that I can be?, am I treating those around me the way I expect to be treated? etc etc etc. Nobody will ever have the answer or solution to the questions that will be asked in the aftermath of these types of events however, if we each take the time to do our best then we have done our due dilligence. My wife and I will raise our son to the best of our abilities and try to instill values and behaviours that we feel are the best. Throughout his time he will experience all that life has to offer and it is these experiences that will shape him into who he will become. I only hope that as his parents we have created a solid foundation for him to stand on when he needs the support. All we can do, is all we can do and all we can do is our best.

thanks for reading,

Jay

[wikkid]

I have nothing to add to the discussion that wasn't covered in TX82Fiat's post.

Except, anecdotally, I am good friends with a couple who are raising their 3 kids in Newtown, so I am hearing the cries for gun control laws pretty strongly. It is really hard to talk to them about this, and to suggest that the reasons, or the blame, might lie within our society and its values, not within ownership of guns. They are not (yet?) ready to hear it.

[ga.spyder]

My question is would stricter gun control have stopped this tragedy? In short,No.The state of Ct. have some of the stictest restrictions in the US. The guns were obtained legally by a responsible adult.Unfortunately they fell into the wrong hands.The real culprit is our lack of recognition and capability to recognize mental illness.The mother of the shooter devoted her life to dealing with her son,who showed the signs of mental illness early on.What were her options? Most mental institutions are part of the penal system.There are very few parents who would willingly throw their kids into that system,especially seeing how vulnerable they can be at times.The anwer ? I dont know,but taking away the right to self protection isnt it.As the old bumper stickers used to say"If Guns are Outlawed..Only Outlaws Will Have Guns''
I saw this last night,and it really opened my eyes to the plight of parents of mentally ill kids ''I am Adam Lanzas Mother''
http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother

[TX82FIAT]

Craig, that is a powerful article. Thank you for sharing this insight. There are some mental issues that do go beyond parenting. In these cases, the rage of these kids does go beyond culture shaping thier reality. In that article, the mother had to safegaurd sharp objects. The monther had no where to turn but the penial system. 4uall is in the right place saying all we can do is our best. Our best is to address the mental illness and the culture.

[RRoller123]

Amen to all of your responses. I knew this would open up a can o' woims, but I think it is important to get this out on the table for discussion. If it gets ugly, I will go back and delete all my posts, and we can get back to our beloved little cars.

Sooooo.... It ocurrs to me that one of the real dangers now lies in the screaming calls for disarmament of the US population by leftists such as Moore and Schultz, et al. But we Americans are a rebellious lot, and yes somewhat adolescent, but we have no multi-century history or culture of fealty and acceptance of domination by a higher authority, Kings and Queens, Welfare States, etc. Forced disarmament will not go well... And the US is the last place on Earth where free market Capitalism is alive and well (sort of). There is nowhere left to retreat to. The Puritans had a place to go when the disavowed the COE. We do not. At best, we can retreat to the various free states (how ironic to use that term) that may remain for awhile. But my biggest fear is this: The population of the US will not stand for disarmament. There will be armed resistance on a massive scale, and quite possibly civil war. For those of you outside the US, who may not be familiar with our independent nature, this is not hyperbole. We will not be disarmed. It will get very ugly, very fast. And oh the incredible irony of our first black President's actions possibly being the root cause of the second US Civil War. I can't bear it. I hope cooler heads prevail and we get to the true cause of the problem, which is a culture with serious corrupt media flaws, and the undertreatment and poor support of the mentaly ill.

[RRoller123]

One more thing, I have been in tears the last two days over this and also because my beautiful daughter, who just moved to the mountains of Colorado for a great life adventure was yesterday stricken with appendicitis and had to have emergency surgery. You guys and gals, although I have met very few of you face to face, are a port in the storm for me and I look forward to this group every time I log on. Thank you all.

[4uall]

@RRoller123

[131]

I wondered how long it would take before the rationale started. As an outsider, I scratch my head in wonder when it is suggested that more guns would reduce the violence. Or blaming video games or movies, or lack of mental health treatment. If I wanted to get a gun in a hurry, I wouldn't know where to start. To obtain one legally would take several weeks, police checks etc. and I'm limited to what type of gun it could be. I like the idea that everyone has to do the same, I've dealt with mental illness and depression in the past, possibly the only reason that my family or I am alive is because I didn't have easy access to projectile firing weapons. No one could convince me that I or my neighbour need the right to possess an armory of semi automatic weapons, automatic shotguns or assault rifles. So I'll sit back, watch, listen and read, and continue to scratch my head.